Precision Ground W2 ??

Fitzo, yeah I remember and you are right, it can vary by a lot. But the info on that site is way different than any I've seen. Add vanadium to W1 and it's no longer W1 but is W2 and I've never seen 1% V in either steel.
 
Don Hanson III said:
Fitzo, yeah I remember and you are right, it can vary by a lot. But the info on that site is way different than any I've seen. Add vanadium to W1 and it's no longer W1 but is W2 and I've never seen 1% V in either steel.
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IIRC, Diehl was one of the odder analyses we found last time, too.
 
greatlakeswaterjet said:
http://www.diehlsteel.com is the only place I have found it. I've had several customers ask for it. Don't know about now. Good luck.
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I called Diehl Tool Steel a number of weeks ago because they had W2 listed (0.86 C, 0.24% V) and got told they didn't have any and thought finding it was unlikely but would look if I wanted. Also asked them about the W1 (1.00% C, 1.00% V) shown on their site. The 1.00% V is a typo, it turns out... actual V for their W1 is 0.10% which, to my understanding, falls in "trace" amounts.

I had a short, not-fruitful, discussion about Diehl's W1 here: http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?p=1004374&posted=1#post1004374

Mike Krall
 
Mike Krall said:
I called Diehl Tool Steel a number of weeks ago because they had W2 listed (0.86 C, 0.24% V) and got told they didn't have any and thought finding it was unlikely but would look if I wanted. Also asked them about the W1 (1.00% C, 1.00% V) shown on their site. The 1.00% V is a typo, it turns out... actual V for their W1 is 0.10% which, to my understanding, falls in "trace" amounts.

I had a short, not-fruitful, discussion about Diehl's W1 here: http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?p=1004374&posted=1#post1004374

Mike Krall
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That "W1" from Diehl sounds like it would be great to me. :)

Like Don says, W1 with Vanadium becomes W2, though. ;)
 
Danbo,

Well, if Crucible makes the "W2" to the chemistry in post #4, it would be, or nearly so.

The part about vanadium making W1 into W2 is true but W1 can have vanadium in it (0.10% V, max). The range of vanadium for W2 is 0.15% to 0.35% and the range for manganese is 0.10 to 0.40%. Technically, with 0.80% Mn and 0.80% V, the Crucible "W2" isn't... maybe W2M ("M" for modified) but I don't know the business well enough to do anything but guess what the technical labeling would be.

The SFI thread link I put up indicates the Crucible "W2" would maybe be CPM. There is also a link in that thread to a steel seller (Swedish) who has UHB17VA, an 85 points of carbon W2. It's Uddelholm steel and they distribute in the U.S. so maybe it is available.

Mike
 
Don Hanson III said:
Mike, Mn is the single alloy that most effects hamon activity in simple high carbon steels.

From my experience, .50% Mn is the cut off point for good hamon activity. Less Mn is even better, I like it around .20 or less. Good activity can happen with more Mn but it's difficult and can drive one nuts :)

Also, the lower the carbon, the more Mn you can get away with, like in 1050.
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Thank you for that, Don... really helpful to me...

The Diehl W1 vanadium at 1.00% was a typo on their web site... actually 0.10%. Near as I can tell, the other "odd" elements in the W1 & W2 listed there all fall in "trace"... and are "in range" for both W1 & W2 (from Heat Treaters Guide). I've been told steel recycling has a lot to do with the trace amounts found in a lot of steel today.

Mike
 
jdm61 said:
Everything you see, hear and read about W2 and other low vanadium simple carbon steels like 1086M seems to support the comment that is attributed to Don Fogg that W2 is the ultimate bladesmiths steel. It has small grain structure, doesn't air harden, gets scary sharp and stays that way and is almost as tough as 5160 or L6. It seems that the trick is getting any to begin with and getting batches like Don's where the carbon isn't up in the 1.5% range where it would be rather difficult to harden using our "roll your own" methods. The Crucible stuff sounds really interesting. Tough to get a hamon, maybe, but i wonder if it is deep hardening enough that you could marquench it? That would be nice.
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Joe, I just got to say this... maybe W2 HT'ed right would run with 5160 for toughness, I don't know... but there isn't anything a knifemaker would use that comes close to how tough L6 is.

Most recently made W1 & W2 are in the 1.00% C range. I've got some 1.20% W1 but it is pretty old and I've looked hard (drops and over-orders at tool steel houses) for W1/W2 in lower and higher carbon for a couple of years and haven't found any.

The 0.80% Mn won't make this a marquench steel...

Mike
 
where can I get more info on Crucible making W2? (or is it hearsay)
 
Dan, Curcible is supposed to be making the new forging steel.

With .80 Mn, I don't think they will call it W2.
 
Will the extra Mn affect performance (compared to your W2)?

or just the hamon...?


Thanks!

Dan
 
I would like to comment on this, but must talk to Crucible first. There is more to it like cleanliness etc. This is designed from the start as a forgable blade steel. It had gone through 4 formulations to arrive at its current state. Designed by crucible metallurgists, and tested by bladesmiths. sized for knifemaking ......I would wait until the blade show before buying any large orders for steel. This has been a 3 year project, so I don't know when it will actually be ready,any guess is premature.

Dan Farr
 
sabre said:
I would like to comment on this, but must talk to Crucible first. There is more to it like cleanliness etc. This is designed from the start as a forgable blade steel. It had gone through 4 formulations to arrive at its current state. Designed by crucible metallurgists, and tested by bladesmiths. sized for knifemaking ......I would wait until the blade show before buying any large orders for steel. This has been a 3 year project, so I don't know when it will actually be ready,any guess is premature.

Dan Farr
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Looking forward to seeing this stuff. I had read a while back that you were the original smith that was testing the stuff and had not heard anything else until this past weekend. From the sound of it, this stuff, unlike some of the other Crucible tool steels that knifemakers use. will not only be forgeable, but also grindable, home heat treatable, sandable, polishable and sharpenable:D
 
Joe, the steel was not only designed to make good knives, it was designed to make them with our traditional equipment. I took my whole shop to Pittsburgh and did a demo of forging, heat treating, and hand sanding.

Dan
 
sabre said:
Joe, the steel was not only designed to make good knives, it was designed to make them with our traditional equipment. I took my whole shop to Pittsburgh and did a demo of forging, heat treating, and hand sanding.

Dan
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Unlike the M4, where you can leave out the whole sanding part, right? ;)
 
Caught this thread a bit late :( , but I've got some info to share regarding a source for W2. For flat ground W2 (blanchard ground) I've been dealing with Unisteel LLC in Sterling Heights Michigan. I've had very good results as far as Hamon activity goes using their W2. Analysis that I received for their W2 steel is : C 1.00 Mn .25 Si .20 V .25 They have a website but for some reason they have been experiencing problems the past couple days. I just spoke with them on the phone and they are "working on it". Contact info is :

Unisteel LLC
6155 Sims
Sterling Heights, MI 48313
Ph. (586) 826-8040
Fax (586) 826-8055
Web www.unisteel.elwd.com give this web addy a try later, like I said, they're having "issues"
 
Daniel Koster said:
Will the extra Mn affect performance (compared to your W2)?

or just the hamon...?


Thanks!

Dan
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Dan, Mn effects the depth of hardening. I don't think more MN will be noticeable in performance but it will greatly reduce hamon activity.

The Curcible stuff sounds like a great blade steel and it's very good the see a new simple carbon steel coming on the market. Thanks to Dan Farr and Crucible :thumbup:
 
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