Prep Work Prior to Heat Treating Tips And Tricks

J

Jon Augesen

Joined
Jan 16, 2021
Messages
43
Good Afternoon Everyone,
I am new to making knives and absolutely love it. I know there is a ridiculous amount of information to learn, and would love some tips and tricks. I am learning the freehand grinding techniques and primarily working with O1 (old files) and 1095 steel. My question here is the process right before heat treating. Thoughts or tips on a process for getting the scale off the blade after normalizing and heat treating both. Something to make it easier if that exists. I tried cleaning up the blank and wiping it down with mineral oil right before heat treating (after normalizing three times) and the scale from the oil seemed to come off quicker than any other time I have made a knife. This is probably my 5th knife or so.

An old file (O1)
Single burner forger for heating
Peanut oil for quenching

This thing is 14" long with a 9.5" blade roughly.

I assume there might be some detail that I missed, and will provide additional detail if needed or asked. In addition, open season on feedback of the knife. Good or bad. That is how I will learn

Thanks
 
New to all of this, so there is most likely a better way to post the picture of the knife. I might figure that out eventually
 
For future knives
A couple things I see:
The step down from the spine is unnecessary and not a good idea. The spine should go straight onto the handle tang.

Unless you have six or seven fingers, there is no need for the extra bumps in the handle. One simple and not large palm swell is all you need or want.
The handle also looks excessively long. Look at some pictures of knives made by the major makers for some ideas of a proper handle shape.

The overall knife is quite "stiff" looking. A slight drop to the tip would soften that a lot. By dropping the point about 1/4" more and making the curve from the spine to the tip gradual instead of angular the blade will have more "flow".
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
For future knives
A couple things I see:
The step down from the spine is unnecessary and not a good idea. The spine should go straight onto the handle tang.

Unless you have six or seven fingers, there is no need for the extra bumps in the handle. One simple and not large palm swell is all you need or want.
The handle also looks excessively long. Look at some pictures of knives made by the major makers for some ideas of a proper handle shape.

The overall knife is quite "stiff" looking. A slight drop to the tip would soften that a lot. By dropping the point about 1/4" more and making the curve from the spine to the tip gradual instead of angular the blade will have more "flow".
Click to expand...


Good to know. Thank you very much Stacy. I will correct that in the future. I will also adjust the handle design. I am guilty of trying to add a "cool factor" but probably sacrificed something. Thank you for your input
 
Hi Jon,
A brave soul going for a 9.5 inch blade early in your grinding career; and 01 steel at that. This steel does require a soak time in order to attain all it's attributes. It is most often used for impact tools such as punches and chisels. It does make a decent blade but it does like special attention. Many newer knife makers will seek out steels like 5160 and the mid tens series steels such as 1075 or 1084, both are very forgiving and they are excellent knife steels.
There is nothing wrong with learning the trade by grinding 9 or 10 inch blades but I know from experience you will learn the craft sooner by starting out grinding smaller blades. Once you have mastered grinding beautiful 2 or 3 inch blades; move to the larger more time consuming blades like big daggers or even swords. This coming from a man who loves big blades.
Little tips: don't lay hot blades on cold surfaces especially steel.
If you are going by the color of the steel to gage quenching temperatures, always do so under the same light conditions.
When file testing the edge of a blade for hardness, after the blade has been quenched, wait for the steel to cool below 400fh for that is the temp. where hardening takes place, up till then the steel is transitioning and will be pliable. Use this time period to straighten any warps. It can be done with gloved hands.
Set aside one day a week in your shop to do those little things, move a rack or shelf to the correct height. Put in an extra light. Adjust things that help you do better work, that helps you work better. Setting this time aside to fix and adjust the rest of your time in the shop will be more productive and more enjoyable as well.
Enjoy the experience, Fred
 
Fred.Rowe said:
Hi Jon,
A brave soul going for a 9.5 inch blade early in your grinding career; and 01 steel at that. This steel does require a soak time in order to attain all it's attributes. It is most often used for impact tools such as punches and chisels. It does make a decent blade but it does like special attention. Many newer knife makers will seek out steels like 5160 and the mid tens series steels such as 1075 or 1084, both are very forgiving and they are excellent knife steels.
There is nothing wrong with learning the trade by grinding 9 or 10 inch blades but I know from experience you will learn the craft sooner by starting out grinding smaller blades. Once you have mastered grinding beautiful 2 or 3 inch blades; move to the larger more time consuming blades like big daggers or even swords. This coming from a man who loves big blades.
Little tips: don't lay hot blades on cold surfaces especially steel.
If you are going by the color of the steel to gage quenching temperatures, always do so under the same light conditions.
When file testing the edge of a blade for hardness, after the blade has been quenched, wait for the steel to cool below 400fh for that is the temp. where hardening takes place, up till then the steel is transitioning and will be pliable. Use this time period to straighten any warps. It can be done with gloved hands.
Set aside one day a week in your shop to do those little things, move a rack or shelf to the correct height. Put in an extra light. Adjust things that help you do better work, that helps you work better. Setting this time aside to fix and adjust the rest of your time in the shop will be more productive and more enjoyable as well.
Enjoy the experience, Fred
Click to expand...


Just like Stacy, this is very good advice. I do need to add more light. I do understand about the length. It was a bit of a challenge and i do think I can do a better job in the future. What about 1095 compared to 1084. And with the O1 and the "soak" comment. Is that a soak in the heat or soak in the quench oil? Might be a silly question but I have read that a few times, and am unclear on that. In addition, what is the Xtra time?
 
When heat treating 1095 it also requires a soak period in the heat. It may require a ramped heating as well, someone will know here. The 01 as well it requires a soak in the heat. You'll have to check on time, I don't recall right off. The reason for the 1084 recommendation is it has no soak requirement. The temperature it calls for when heat treating has a fairly large error range. You can be off by quite a bit and still have everything go well.
There is so much to learn in order to be accomplished at this craft. As Stacy stated, enjoy the learning it is awesome. One of my greatest joys was learning the craft.
 
I will try to get some 1084. That is what I originally was looking for, but I couldn't find it. Seems to be hard to come by.
 
Just a slight correction to Fred's excellent advice. The transition starts at 400°F. In simple carbon steels, it is done usually by 200°F. Don't file test the edge until you can pick up the blade by hand.
 
Does it benefit O1 steel to do a normalizing process? If it wasn't forged and just cut and shaped from a file?
 
In addition to the question above, is it worth it to practice bevels and plunge lines on some scrap mild steel to get the technique? I tend to have to keep working the bevel up because I keep over correcting from side to side. I hear differing opinions on jigs, and would like to get proficient at free hand to not rely on a jig. I like the idea of one, but want the entire scope of the skill
 
I assume when you said, "O-1 shaped from a file" you meant "O-1 shaped with a file". Files are not O-1.
If the steel is O-1 bar stock you filed or ground on a grinder, you probably don't need to normalize it. It won't hurt, but likely the steel is fine as-is.

I don't like jigs, but admit they will help with bevels to some degree. I feel it is better to learn to control your tools by feel and eye.

Practicing on scrap steel is OK to learn how to file and testing out a jig when setting it up, but most simple knife steel is barely more expensive. To me it seems smarter to learn on the steel you will be using. Also, you can learn HT on knife steel, but not mild steel. If the knife comes out good ... well, that's good. If it doesn't, just set it aside for later when you have better skills and equipment. You will often hear, "every bad knife has a good smaller knife hiding inside it".
 
Oh, that is great advice, and I didnt know that. That changes a lot as I was misinformed. Then it wasn't O1. It was an old Nicholson file that I made that knife from. What kind of steel is that usually? It seems to have hardened well as the file does skate across it and after the tempering it came out a golden straw color on 100% of the knife that cleaned up pretty well with just a scotch brite belt.SmartSelect_20210117-134647_Gallery.jpg
 
Absolutely practice on mild steel. The first two months of my blade making journey was grinding bevels on mild steel from HD. I got to where I could get a good (for me) grind, and started making some blades. Just glued up my 2, 3, 4th blades yesterday and my grinds look better each time. I have a jig and a bubble jig. They definitely helped me get the "feel" of what I was supposed to be doing, but I quickly transitioned to freehand. Fred's Bubble Jig is your best best to help you with the feel of what you're supposed to be doing.
 
I would skip the mild steel. A 4ft bar of 8670 is under $20 from Pop's. That will make quite a few practice blades, takes less time (and abrasives) to get flat, and you can finish the knife if you do not completely mess up the grind and practice heat treating and handle making in the process.
 
That is true. I used mild steel because I could run and grab it right away, and it was plentiful. Plus I hate wasting good knife steel! But it def would work!
 
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