Press Release, from Gil Hibben

nyc wrote:
I don't understand. The ABS show is limited to 50 tables. If the Moran Foundation were to have 50 tables at the Guild Show, wouldn't that give some ABS members (who are also Moran members) who couldn't get a table at the ABS show an opportunity to show off their unique skills and art. How can this possibly be considered a conflict of interest. This should be considered a melding of two wonderful organizations, the ABS and the Moran Foundation, giving more opportunies to its memberships. How sad this won't be happening.
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I agree with this statement.

Most of the knives that I have in my collection are forged. Most are made by ABS Mastersmiths. I have been a collector member of the ABS for over 7 years. It is a great organization, which I support. I took the Intro to Bladesmithing course at the ABS School in Old Washington, not to become a maker but to learn more about knives and knifemaking and I had a great time.. I also travel to one or two ABS Hammer-ins per year.

It is my understanding that all of the tables at the ABS Expo in San Antonio are sold out and that there is a waiting list for ABS makers who would like to exhibit there.

Bill Moran was one of four founding ABS members, but I consider him the main reason that the ABS is sucessful. I have Moran knives in my collection. I will soon join the WF Moran Foundation, which is also a great organization, and is trying to preserve Mr. Moran's legacy. Both groups have the same goals.

I see no reason that the Moran exhibit or other ABS makers who are not able to exhibit in San Antonio should not exhibit at the Guild Show. It would help both organizations and knife making/collecting over all. More people would be exposed to forged blades.

Many collectors might not be willing to go to South Texas in August, e.g. me, coming from NH, but might attend an event in Kentucky in September if there were forged blades there.

I have no idea who was notified, or who said what to who, but I see no conflict of interest in having separate shows.

Jim Treacy
 
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I have been a member of the ABS for over 30 years, I have never been more ashamed of the activities of the board.

I just talked to Gill Hibben, we discussed a plan: If we can get 15 blade smiths to agree to attend, we will go ahead without the blessings of any board or committee. Displays of forged blades will be welcome as will any forged blades for sale. The maker need not be a member of the Moran Foundation or the ABS, just one who forges blades. If things go the way it looks there may be some more organizations of blade smiths.
 
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jjtjr said:
Many collectors might not be willing to go to South Texas in August, e.g. me, coming from NH, but might attend an event in Kentucky in September if there were forged blades there.

Jim Treacy
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Just to clarify; there will be forged blades at the Guild Show in Louisville with or without the Moran Foundation as several Guild members forge their blades. I can't say for sure but I think it is likely that there are some who are members of both the Guild and ABS. I hope you come down to see the show.

Mike
 
jjtjr said:
Many collectors might not be willing to go to South Texas in August, e.g. me, coming from NH, but might attend an event in Kentucky in September if there were forged blades there.
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That's exactly the problem. Having what is essentially a second 50-table forged blade show so close in time to the ABS show might well make some - perhaps many - collectors pass up San Antonio for the Guild show.

I don't know who said what to whom when either, but that this could have a negative impact on the San Antonio show - particularly given the timing - seems obvious to me. That this course of action should have been pursued by one or more ABS board members - well, that really has me scratching my head.

It's one thing to have forged blade members in attendance at Guild - that has always been the case. It's another to essentially replicate the the ABS show at a different place and very close in time.

And I think Kevin's suggestion was a good one. How much extra space could a Moran exhibit take up?

Roger

PS - Could someone explain why there is such repeated complaint made about the time and place of the ABS show? I presume they had heat in Reno in January and will have a/c in San Antonio in August? It can get pretty toasty in Hotlanta in June, but they somehow manage to hold the Blade Show there every year just the same.
 
The problem was not in another forged blade show. The problem was that two ABS board members were putting it on and recruiting EXISTING ABS Expo attendees to display at their show.

If Ed Fowler wants to put on a show with the Guild thats great. He's not an ABS board member. The ABS board has to do what is best for THEIR members.

Do you think the Guild would support one of their board members starting and hosting a handmade show just weeks after the guild show, and then start recruiting existing guild table holders? I don't think that would fly. Down here in the south you'd be chased back up north if you were to turn on your own kind like that!

Good luck Mr. Fowler with your new show.
 
There are many shows that are scheduled closely together and do not detract from either other. It's the collectors' decision on which show to attend and that simply cannot be controlled by the organization. As a collector, I will make my choice of shows. If I like the ABS show, I will attend it, but, by the same token, if there are Moran or ABS members at a Guild show, and I want to see those makers, I will attend that show also.

Sounds to me like the complaints are more about the ego, than the art, and as a collector, I want to see the art no matter where or when a show is scheduled.
 
Many collectors might not be willing to go to South Texas in August, e.g. me, coming from NH, but might attend an event in Kentucky in September if there were forged blades there.
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Quote:That's exactly the problem. Having what is essentially a second 50-table forged blade show so close in time to the ABS show might well make some - perhaps many - collectors pass up San Antonio for the Guild show
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Roger,

My point is that I am an ABS collector, but have no intention of attending the ABS Expo in August, in San Antonio, I know that everything is air conditioned etc., but I personally don't like extremely hot weather.

All of the ABS Expo tables are taken so the other event would not hurt sales etc at that show. I assume that the Moran Exhibit/Guild event is a one time thing. and don't see how it would harm the ABS Expo.

I do agree 100% that Kevin's suggestion is a good idea.

gunmakersman posted:

The problem was not in another forged blade show. The problem was that two ABS board members were putting it on and recruiting EXISTING ABS Expo attendees to display at their show.
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If they were trying to recruit Expo attendees who were signed up for this years show it would be a different matter. Is this a rumor or a fact?

I see that you only have 4 posts on Bladeforum.com, maybe if you are going to make this assertion you should sign the post with your real name.

Jim Treacy
 
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jjtjr said:
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If they were trying to recruit Expo attendees who were signed up for this years show it would be a different matter. Is this a rumor or a fact?
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I know for a fact at least one MS maker was recruited....call me up, I'll tell you his name.

jjtjr said:
. I see that you only have 4 posts on Bladeforum.com, maybe if you are going to make this assertion you should sign the post with your real name.

Jim Treacy
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gunmakersman said:
I don't mean to stir it up and probably won't post more but I am confused. I loved the ABS and wish them well but what is happening there?

Jim Small
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NOT the engraver, Jim Small, as clarified below. The above quote is from his first post on BladeForums.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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Yes this is a fact. I'm not sure if it is the same guy Mr. Garson is speaking of but I know of two.

I am not an engraver. I am a semi retired gun smith. I don't really know the engrave Jim Small though I know his name. Just a coincedence so please don't put my comments on him. Not fair to the ol' boy!
 
Jim,

Sorry, I did not see that you signed your name to your first post.

STeven,

Email sent.

Jim
 
jjtjr said:
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All of the ABS Expo tables are taken so the other event would not hurt sales etc at that show.
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Jim - tables don't create sales - buyers do. If you split or diminish the pool of potential buyers for a given show by hosting a similar show very close in time, you potentially hurt the sales of that first show.

Roger
 
I have not read all of this thread so this may have been discussed already.

When the ABS decided to have a show it was in January, well removed from the Guild Show. Now it is in August. A decision made by the Show committee and as far as I know not the Board of Directors.

If anyone is encroaching on a show it looks like it is the ABS Show committee not Jay and Johnny. For years I and other ABS Bladesmiths attended both the Guild Show and the ABS Show. Now this is not easily done.

I thought the decision to have a forged knife section at the Guild Show was a good one both for the Guild and collectors. If the ABS show committee is nervous about this then where is your confidence in your own show?

Jay, I personally think you should stand by your arrangement with Gil.

Daniel
 
Josh: just read your posts and you will know - maybe if you review them again in a few years.
The proposal would have been good for the Moran Foundation As well as the ABS. We all could have gained. Every ABS member owes Bill and Margaret his respect.
Today there are no winners, just more discontent.
 
Don,

I do both of these shows and I also find this strange and I will say I take My hat off to
Josh for standing up and saying what is on his mind and Ed I think if your gona make a statement and then not answer a question pertaining to it you probably shouldn't make it.

Cliff Parker
 
After reading this thread is I would suggest that everyone quit worrying about what someone else is doing and worry a lot more about what they themselves are doing.

There was a time that show dates were avoided by other shows. That was a time this industry had more respect and courtesy for each other than it does today.

I've learned to accept this lack of respect as one of the realities of the knife industry. No one has rights to a show date. The marketplace will sort it out conflicting shows quick enough.

It is not we have too many shows. It is we have too few GOOD shows.

If you don't like the way someone else is running their show, your first choice is to not go. Your second choice is to attend, pay your table fees and thus earn your seat at the table to comment.

Any show promoter who is altering his show decisions based on comments from people who are not attending and have no intention of attending is not using sound judgment.
 
This thread has sparked an interest and I thought I would explain my thoughts on this subject more thoroughly. The following statements are what I have observed and learned from several years of attending knife shows.

Knife shows seems to fall into two categories to me: Regional and National/International. Regional shows seem to draw their primary customers from the general area around the show. Usually within about a three to four hour drive. This is not to say that quite a few people don’t travel from further distances but for the most part this is where the show pulls from. A National/International Show draws from all across the country and abroad.
The Blade Show is definitely a National/International Show. It is the biggest and everyone knows about it. Customers and makers will travel long distances to get there. The Art Knife Invitational I feel also draws customers from far away. Although I have never been I understand that it is only open to invited guests that are selected from the customer list supplied by the makers that attend the show. Its purpose is to have available knives from makers that may otherwise be difficult to get. Therefore it draws from customers with the means to travel long distances. Back in the day when the Knifemakers Guild was the big organization, the Guild Show was a National/International Show. There were a lot of makers and customers that traveled long distances to get to the Guild Show. Internal bickering created a cancer within the Guild. It is now showing signs of remission.

All the other shows I am aware of in the US appear to me as Regional Shows. Sure, most will have both customers and makers that travel long distances but the primary customers are somewhat local. Some of these are great shows and continue to build and may hopefully become National/International. To do this will take the right management to attract the right makers that will draw the customer base that makes it that type of show. This type of show will stand on its own without regard to other shows that encroach on its show dates.

From my point of view the ABS Expo had the opportunity to hasten their move to being a National/International show by attaching themselves to the Safari Club Show. The Safari Club is very large and is filled with members from all over the world with the means to travel long distances and spend money on what they want. Moving to Texas and standing on their own may have shown a lot of confidence to the knife public but I feel eliminated an outstanding opportunity to tap into a large potential market that was already gathered.

It seems to me that the more regional shows the better for all makers and customers. The more people that are drawn into the custom knife world give all makers better opportunity to grow. It gives collectors more to choose from and will attract more and more new potential customers. All customers have to start somewhere and a local show will often be the start of a serious collector.

Local show promoter’s primary goal should be to do everything they can to pull in new potential customers and then promote the makers that have the draw to bring in as many established collectors as possible. Build on the new up-coming makers and use them as the draw to build the show. Stop preaching to the choir and worrying about what maker goes to what show and focus on making your show the best option. Not the only option. Who wants to win a contest where you are the only one entered?
In my opinion Jay Hendrickson and Johnny Perry have done exactly what they should by promoting the forged blade. They are not destroying the ABS Expo which is now a regional show but they are trying to provide another draw to build the ABS, Bladesmiths and knife collecting.

Turmoil within the ABS will do nothing good. The Guild Show management and the ABS Expo committee should support each other and work together to make both shows attractive to attend. Both have limited tables and with a little cooperation I think both could fill both the tables with makers and the room with customers. Having an enhanced forged blade presence at the Guild Show that is endorsed by the ABS is a great idea. The ABS Expo committee might even consider inviting a few Guild makers to the Expo. There are several established makers in the area around San Antonio that might like to show at the Expo.

There is great opportunity here. Don’t let ego and suspicion screw it up.

Daniel
 
I understand after speaking with a member of the ABS Expo committee that the show move in both location and dates were recommendations presented to and approved by the ABS Board of Directors. I was also told that these changes were recommended as a result of the questionnaires passed out to table holders at the Reno Show.

I may not agree with these changes but I certainly understand the Show committee considering the opinions of the table holders. It may not be the best way to conduct business but it does sound fair.

Daniel
 
Cliff Parker said:
Don,

I do both of these shows and I also find this strange and I will say I take My hat off to
Josh for standing up and saying what is on his mind and Ed I think if your gonna make a statement and then not answer a question pertaining to it you probably shouldn't make it.

Cliff Parker
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Thanks Cliff. I appreciate it.
 
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