Pretty Trash - Help!

second on Aldo's 1084, I love the stuff if he still has any jump on it, if he's out sign up for some on the next rolling, his 1095 is good too, I like it a whole lot better than the 1095 mill-scale-rolled-in steel that Admiral sells. I used to be an O-1 fanatic but then I got my hands on 1084 and haven't used O-1 since even though I still have 4 or 5 bars of it in my basement, now I use 1084 mostly, 1084/15N20 Damascus, 1095 occaisionally ( I have bigger bars of it than of 1084, also from Aldo, one of my students and I made axeheads out of the 1095 and it's great stuff) and 5160 for sword blades.
I kiln treat things when I can, but abouth half of my blades are made away from my kiln so I heat treat them in the forge and they still come out great

-Page
 
Hey Fiddleback,
I've got 150 lbs of some 3/16x 1 1/2 0-1 sitting in a warehouse about 30 miles from me. E-mail me if you're interested. I'm sure it won't be as painful in the pockets as P.G.

Aldo

PS- How do you beat a steel that was designed to be sharp! I love O-1....and 1084 ....and 1095 ......and W-1,5160, H-9,52100,W-2 and even beat up old nasty files and R.R.Track.
 
Since there are just too many folks who get great results with them, assigning the troubles to the steel or the oil is not a reasonable assumption to me. Looking at the blades and hearing the description, I would go immediately to the suspicion of overheating. 1095 will not tolerate overheating, and it is the only way I could see one getting cracking of it in oil.

I know I have reiterated it many times before but I guess I must continue the warning- if you are going to edge quench do not waste your money on #50, or any good oil for that matter, used ATF or motor oil wont notice the abuse in price or performance. I am trying to be gentle but I get a little “itchy” hearing an excellent tool or product getting written off when it wasn’t being used in a way that will allow it to work properly.
 
Kevin R. Cashen said:
Since there are just too many folks who get great results with them, assigning the troubles to the steel or the oil is not a reasonable assumption to me. Looking at the blades and hearing the description, I would go immediately to the suspicion of overheating. 1095 will not tolerate overheating, and it is the only way I could see one getting cracking of it in oil.

I know I have reiterated it many times before but I guess I must continue the warning- if you are going to edge quench do not waste your money on #50, or any good oil for that matter, used ATF or motor oil wont notice the abuse in price or performance. I am trying to be gentle but I get a little “itchy” hearing an excellent tool or product getting written off when it wasn’t being used in a way that will allow it to work properly.
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My assumption was that my HT was the problem, this thread was to try to figure out how I went astray. I don't think the steel is bad, or that the oil is bad. I think the steel is less forgiving than the 01 I'm used to, and that the oil just doesn't work for me (see your advice above on edge quenching). My cheap ass charcoal forge isn't a controlled temperature environment.

Don't hold back on me. I came to learn. If you're itchy to jump my ass, please feel free to jump my ass.

In your last paragraph, are you suggesting that I clay quench in 1095 rather than edge quench? Otherwise, how do I get a soft spine and hard edge?

Thanks, Kevin, for taking the time to respond, btw. Your time is appreciated.

AfterTFD said:
If it's any consolation you're certainly right about them being pretty.
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Thanks bro!
 
While I'm no Kevin Cashen by any stretch, I would chime in that clay quenching should at least get you the cooling rate the oil is designed for, but that I wouldn't want to put that clay stuff into my parks! Having spent money on good quenching oil, I like to keep it pure and clean as long as I possibly can so I don't have to replace it any sooner than necessary.

Alternatively, instead of edge quenching or clay coating, you could draw thew spine back with a torch. If you really want a soft back, you can put the blade face down in water while you draw the spine out a bunch. They also sell a gel that is intended to prevent heat transferring beyond a certain point. It's essentially the same gig as the water, but won't boil off.

Of course, by through hardening and then drawing out the spine, you don't get that pretty hardening line everyone loves so much...
 
Thanks Dan. I liked the torch idea somebody said above. That way you only heat the edge. I've got a bunch more of this stuff, so I'm going to keep plugging.
 
Guess I'll have to watch for this. Charcoal fire, leave about a 1/16 of edge thickness. My stock is 5/32, does that extra 1/16 help?
 
Fiddleback said:
Thanks Dan. I liked the torch idea somebody said above. That way you only heat the edge. I've got a bunch more of this stuff, so I'm going to keep plugging.
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NONONONONONO!
you heat treat the whole blade, full immerse point down in oil, then you temper it (375-400 f in a PREHEATED oven for an hour on the bottom shelf standing spine down, edge up with a cookie sheet under and a cookie sheet on the top shelf over to protect from hot spots) then use a torch to draw the spine to a peacock blue while keeping the edge wet with wet paper towel, wet sand etc.
that's how you do a torch draw
If you try to heat treat just your edge with a torch there are so many things that can and will go wrong:eek:

-Page
 
Thanks Page, that's pretty much what I was trying to describe, only I've seen it done more with the edge submerged in liquid water. Is there a particular advantage to using a wet medim over submerged edge?
 
Fiddleback said:
..Don't hold back on me. I came to learn. If you're itchy to jump my ass, please feel free to jump my ass.

In your last paragraph, are you suggesting that I clay quench in 1095 rather than edge quench? Otherwise, how do I get a soft spine and hard edge?

Thanks, Kevin, for taking the time to respond, btw. Your time is appreciated.



Thanks bro!
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Wow, Fiddleback, do you know how extraordinary your attitude is these days? You will go far with such an approach, mixed with a good filter on all information you receive. I have, however, no special authority to jump on anybody. The world would be a much better place if everybody would find constructive ways to lend input, and I hope to be held to the same standards. I never bought into the idea of certain people being allowed to be arrogant jerks simply because a given number of people believe they know their stuff. Many times I have asked of about a prima donna "why do people let him treat them that way?", and often the reply was "because he really knows his stuff!" My standard reply is that Hitler was one of the best at what he did, but everybody from heaven to earth would agree that if somebody would have stomped his arrogant ass into the dirt the very first time he got out of line, perhaps he could have been persuaded to channel that talent into something helpful. I doubt I am in any danger of becoming a genocidal dictator, but my intial concerns for gentleness were to keep things as constructive as you would expect from anyone.

I was mostly sorry I couldn't get the warning to you before you spent the money on the #50. Flaming that stuff is a quick way to lose your investment and edge quenching is the quickest way to flame it.
 
Kevin R. Cashen said:
Wow, Fiddleback, do you know how extraordinary your attitude is these days? You will go far with such an approach, mixed with a good filter on all information you receive.

Thanks again Kevin. I've got your table # at blade marked, and I am very excited to introduce myself to you. I'll bring one of the duds from this batch so everybody can get a hearty chuckle at my mistake.


I was mostly sorry I couldn't get the warning to you before you spent the money on the #50. Flaming that stuff is a quick way to lose your investment and edge quenching is the quickest way to flame it.
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Thanks for that too. I was just wanting to heat treat the 1095 as properly as I could. I have no idea how I'm going to fit it into my routine as is, but I'll find a way, or save it for when my routine is better controlled.

This experience has pointed out the need for an accurate heat treating furnace. Once I get that I will certainly be able to handle heat treating less forgiving steels. I'm not dissuaded, just realize that for now 01 is probably more suited for me.
 
Andy, There are a lot of things you can do to regulate yout HT sequenses. Knowing how your forge operates and what temperature ranges it produces goes a long way to having consistent results.
I just built a small gasser and have cooked 6 of the last eight blades I tried to HT. My bad! This one was built as a forger and not as a HT oven.
Good luck!
 
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