Previews, marketing and lots of drama

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I have never opened a PayPal case about a knife or in any business with Fiddleback Forge.
 
You are correct. Some may not follow your Feedback with a sheath maker here so I will edit the post for clarity.
 
Vayu said:
I am the one that offered suggestions privately to Andy about an issue that was important to me as a customer, as well as another issue that is not addressed in this thread.

As I told Andy, Ken, and Allen, I am a discerning customer and I care about their business. I want to see them grow and to do so I give them money for what we would all agree is a very beautiful and functional product. I post reviews of their products online. I recommend them to friends and family.

So when I perceived there to be an issue I did what I thought was right, I communicated the issue privately to them. I clearly stated that this was not about me being able to buy a knife, but rather that it was about a perception that I thought was being created with other customers. I also clearly stated that I wanted to help them eliminate any issues with the way their product was being marketed that made customers like me feel like a second tier of customer. I did not make any demands.

In another context, and with other businesses, I simply would have not tried to help. I would not have let them know why they lost my business in the long run. I did not expect any public disclosure of my private concern. I am completely taken aback that it would be aired in a public forum. It was never about me getting a certain knife, but I will admit that the unavailability of certain knives made me concerned that the wrong message was being sent.

The Fiddleback Forge website states that: For those that are interested in purchasing our knives, please join us every Friday for Fiddleback Friday™ on our dedicated forum channel on the Blade Forums.

I simply thought that meant knives were available on Fridays. As Andy has clarified, any knife is available to anyone at any time, first come first serve. I am completely fine with that.
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Vayu said:
When I stated before each post that I did not want to tell you how to run your business, what I meant was that I did not want to tell you how to run your business. Rather, that I would like to make suggestions about a perception that I had as a customer, in order to help you keep my business and that of my friends and family.




Yes, it is true I made a chart that I thought would help you visualize the issue better, as well as a potential solution. Please note the solution was not "sell me this knife". The suggestion was "here is how I think it could be better, but it is up to you". Privately, you said thank you for your time and energy.



That is my right as a customer and certainly one that I have considered, although I felt we had come to resolution prior to this thread.



If this was true I would have appreciated it if you did not make my private suggestions into a public affair, or accuse me of starting drama by offering what I perceived to be suggestions that would improve my experience as a customer to you and lead to more business.
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Vayu said:
Folks, the point is that I recognize that Andy is trying to scale his business and grow. So I offered some suggestions to let him know how I felt as a customer and how he could keep my business over the next 50 years. Isn't that what you do for a business you care about? I have never had anything except positive things to say about Fiddleback Forge and I have been outspoken publicly about their knives. I have spent several thousand dollars with Andy and the crew. I support Super Ben. I have sold knives for him.

I offered some suggestions to him over a weekend, including a graph, because I had misconceptions about the way we could buy knives. I thought it was a worthy investment of my time and effort and that it could help Fiddleback Forge. I send multiple personal messages because I think fast and like to respond in what I consider real time over the forum. I am sorry that you all had to read my concerns as a customer and that you felt it was trivial enough to lambast publicly. I am available to talk privately over PM, email, or phone, to anyone. I did not start these threads.



What I told you specifically was that I understood the difference between a perception and a reality. My intent was to help you understand why I had that perception and what strategies I thought might eliminate that perception among your customers. In no way do I wish to communicate that you are doing something wrong. Rather, I wanted to let you know that the perception was there, by design or by accident, and that it could hurt a business in the long run. Just like with our conversation about sharpness... Benchmade lost market share to Spyderco because dull knives were sent out. Businesses have to work with market trends and customer perceptions every day. It is non standard to air them out on a public forum and I won't participate in it beyond these two posts, which I am more than happy to remove at your request.
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Vayu said:
Is the issue volume, or intent? My intent is as it was when I started, to help you understand what I perceived as a negative experience in a private way and to help you understand why I thought the issue was important, or at least why it was important to me. At any point I would have happily talked to you over the phone, and that includes now.



A closed and resolved case has shut down his business? Just let me know who to call at PayPal and I will clarify the issue, or Bonafide can let me know. I will make any effort he needs to open up the account immediately if that is true. It is also entirely unrelated to this thread.
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Vayu, I see you deleted a lot of your posts in the other thread, so I am quoting these for the record.
 
I'm really hoping Andy and crew can get back to making knives and the drama will stop. There's probably more than a few knives that would have been someone's "Grail" that are not going to be made this week due to this.

Andy seems to have a pretty good handle on how to run his business. He's told us over the years what we can do to help out. The latest that I'm aware of is:

Fiddleback said:
The customers and group of folks here are the best anywhere. I've said this so many times folks are probably getting sick of hearing it. This company was born and grew by your word of mouth advertising. Basically, y'all made this thing a reality. So here I am once again with my hand out asking for your help. As we get ready to start making the production knives, (oh yea, this is happening soon, everything is ordered) we need to increase our brand recognition. You folks have always been our best way to accomplish this. SO, I am just re-stating the old discount for a review idea. Please post a review in some other forum. You can also copy it here if you'd like. If you post a review at another location, you get 10% off your next Fiddleback Knife. Please, only one discount per knife.
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I for one will continue to do what I can to help out in a positive way, spreading my love of Fiddlebacks through word of mouth and posting up reviews.
 
We need a graph that shows the relationship to PMs to Andy and crew with knife making productivity
 
Vayu said:
A closed and resolved case has shut down his business? Just let me know who to call at PayPal and I will clarify the issue, or Bonafide can let me know. I will make any effort he needs to open up the account if that is true. It is also entirely unrelated to this thread.
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It has EVERYTHING to do with this thread. It all started with you sending me a PM about how you dislike my sneak peek threads.

You keep trying to control, manipulate, and now diminish with your BS here and the feedback thread. Editing replies, trying to play a victim. I'm done with your crap.

Normally, someone sends me a PM ... it stays in PM world, but your LIES are bring this one to public view. This was the first of 9 PMs over the weekend. You infer snide remarks about me sharking knives .. smh. Seriously?

Hey Bud,

I really enjoy the sneak peeks but I wanted to let you know that in some cases they have an opposite effect than intended. This isn't me criticizing you, it is me trying to communicate a process that I think could be improved. The issue is that when you do a sneak peek it is implied that this is a sneak peek into knives that will be up for grabs. Consistently, you show off knives that never make it to sale. Sometimes they don't make it to sale because you shark them early. I think it would be better if those knives didn't make it to the sneak peek thread, or if you clearly identified which knives the shop is putting up for friday and which ones are outside the scope of that sort of business framework that the shop has implemented. I have enjoyed your pictures but the last 7 or 8 knives I tried to find based on them were pre-claimed or never made it to sale. That actually is a disincentive to business. In fact as of right now I am not buying WAS knives, Fiddlebacks, or your sheaths because it is creating the perception of a class of customers that are distinct - insiders, and outsiders. You are an insider. You browse the knives and pick what you want and then post it up. Outsiders don't have that option. You are probably generating a ton of sales for the shops but I think some more structure or some discipline where knives not meant for sale are not shown in the same format as knives that will make it up could improve the process. Just my 2 cents. Best,
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I ignored you until you wouldnt STOP with the unsolicited PMs and then I asked you to STOP. I dont work for Andy and he gives me no special treatments or guidance with my sneak peek threads. Your PM about how we should all follow your social media guidance was .. to say the least, absurd.

I finally had enough and reported you to a SuperMod .. and I even told you it was coming. What did you do? YOU OPENED A FRAUDULENT PAYPAL DISPUTE AGAINST ME. For a sheath you have owned for 6 weeks. A sheath you say has fitment issues, yet with ALL your PMs (9 of them in 24 hrs this weekend) concerning the sneak peek threads and all the emails you've sent before .. you have never once mentioned this sheath not fitting? You say the 4"er with the spider tooling (Jan 20 post #B sheath) doesnt fit? Doesn't fit what knife? You claim I gave an erroneous description.

Send the sheath back UNUSED and I'll refund your money. You cant because you are a liar. All of this DRAMA has been sourced to you feeling emotionally hurt because you feel slighted about a knife you saw in one of my sneak peek threads and you couldnt buy it! You blamed me .. its stated in that very first PM I quoted above.

XOXO

Bud
 
Thank you for the feedback Bud. Could you please clarify if your account is locked and what PayPal is suggesting you do to unlock it? I am happy to assist.

Andy, I am available to talk anytime you want. My personal messages were meant as sincere customer feedback. They were meant to be a private communication between two adults with an interest in the knifemaking community. I'll just leave it at that. I'm not sure we communicate in the same way, but I hope you understand that I have supported your business and I have never posted a negative thing about Fiddleback Forge.

If anything, this type of exchange only solidifies my belief that as your business scales, a dedicated customer service and marketing department could enhance the value of your company. My perception was that this was a business with the intent to scale professionally, and that some best practices in terms of advertising sales could help bring more money and business to the table. It is what it is. I am the customer, and I simply did not expect my concerns to be aired publicly.
 
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Getting popcorn
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ANDY SELL YOUR KNIVES HOWEVER YOU SEE FIT....I AM JUST GLAD I GET A SHOT AT ANY OF THEM. BUD YOU TAKING TIME TO DO THE SNEAK PEAKS IS APPRECIATED VERY MUCH....IT BRINGS PEOPLE TO THE FORUM BEFORE FRIDAY :) AND DOING BUSINESS WITH BOTH OF YOU HAS BEEN A PLEASURE!:thumbup:
 
Mcracker said:
ANDY SELL YOUR KNIVES HOWEVER YOU SEE FIT....I AM JUST GLAD I GET A SHOT AT ANY OF THEM. BUD YOU TAKING TIME TO DO THE SNEAK PEAKS IS APPRECIATED VERY MUCH....IT BRINGS PEOPLE TO THE FORUM BEFORE FRIDAY :) AND DOING BUSINESS WITH BOTH OF YOU HAS BEEN A PLEASURE!:thumbup:
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I'm new to this forum. I bought my first FF back in December. I may post an introductory thread at some point with pictures of what participating in this forum has done to me and my knife collection.

I've bought FF knives direct, and from 4 retail sites. I've bought 4 sheaths from Bud. I've upgraded my bladeforums membership to a 3 year gold.

I agree 100% with mcracker.

The adults in this forum need to take a deep breath, swallow their egos, and suck it up. I may not be the oldest on this forum, but I can tell you that one thing I learned growing up in the 70's, other than disco really did suck the life out of real music, is that life's not fair, but it does go by fast. People won't remember what you said or whether you thought you had a good point; they will remember how you made them feel. It's not always about being right.
 
Vayu, I received your PM asking for my input. I am going to reply publicly, if you don't mind. I have learned a few things since becoming a BF member one year ago that I think can help you in situations like this. About a year ago, I threw a little temper-tantrum on here one Sunday afternoon. I will not get into details, but needless to say it was resolved, at least publicly. What was not resolved was the amount of regret that I still feel for that conflict. Having meltdowns like this are something that you cannot take back, and if you value your reputation and status on this forum, I advise you to do stand down. Stop posting, walk away, and stay away until it cools off. Since you asked for my opinion, I will give it to you.
1. Paypal dispute is a last resort. If your dealing with strangers, do what you want, but this is a community and family. There is never a need for paypal dispute unless we get some random wanderer in here ripping people off. Bud is certainly not one of those. His work is fine and fits what it is advertised to fit.
2. Leave Andy alone, his business works the way he wants it to. Apparently you have advanced degrees in Public Health and work in a professional setting. Its apparent by the verbiage you use. However, no one is interested in "Best Practices" or seeing Andy develop and customer service or marketing department. He employs 9 people to assist and make knives. He's a small and wildly successful business. If he wants to grow and become more of a corporate setting, he will do it his way. Unless he directly asked you for your advise on developing business plans and best practices, you were way out of line in your conversation with him. Mind your own business.
3. It doesn't matter if your right or wrong, engaging in this dramatic behavior is going to have a negative impact on your reputation here. I have fallen for this trap a couple of times. Its best to just not respond at all. It took me a while to learn about "online" culture. I never belonged to a forum before this one and did not engage in conversations with strangers online. People online don't know you, they can not distinguish your tone, and they don't get non verbal cues that you would send in more personal interactions. Keep it simple, and for the love of God, don't argue with people or try and prove your case on here, especially vs a cop.
4. I took care of a 41 year old man with advanced ALS last night. The paralysis has worsened over the last 3 years and advanced to his neck, meaning that he was paralyzed from the neck down. His breathing was so shallow that he couldn't clear his lungs or cough and had developed respiratory acidosis because he was retaining CO2. His wife and young daughter were there, and all of them were in complete denial of his condition. The way this disease kills you is that the paralysis ascends from your feet, leaving your mind completely intact, and once it reaches your lungs, you aspirate, develop pneumonia or respiratory acidosis and die. This man was in the last stage, this is how he was going to die, and I knew that there was good chance that this man was not going to leave the hospital. I held the mans hand, held the wife hand, and had to educate them on how this was going to go. It was hardest professional moment of my life, and after we cried, I took him to the ICU where he will likely remain until his gas exchange becomes so bad that they intubate him and make a decision on when to pull the plug. Whats the point? Your getting this upset over some fucking knives and leather sheaths. Keep it in perspective, go give someone a hug and get the fuck over it.
I sincerely hope you offer an apology and give this time to cool off. The people here are great and forgiving, they are better people than I am. Over time they will forget this, but you will always remember (and hopefully regret) the time you showed your ass on Blade Forums. Don't make it any worse for yourself, shut it down.
 
As entertaining as all this is, I have a better idea: knife fight.

It's really conflict resolution at its best.
 
emoney2277 said:
4. I took care of a 41 year old man with advanced ALS last night. The paralysis has worsened over the last 3 years and advanced to his neck, meaning that he was paralyzed from the neck down. His breathing was so shallow that he couldn't clear his lungs or cough and had developed respiratory acidosis because he was retaining CO2. His wife and young daughter were there, and all of them were in complete denial of his condition. The way this disease kills you is that the paralysis ascends from your feet, leaving your mind completely intact, and once it reaches your lungs, you aspirate, develop pneumonia or respiratory acidosis and die. This man was in the last stage, this is how he was going to die, and I knew that there was good chance that this man was not going to leave the hospital. I held the mans hand, held the wife hand, and had to educate them on how this was going to go. It was hardest professional moment of my life, and after we cried, I took him to the ICU where he will likely remain until his gas exchange becomes so bad that they intubate him and make a decision on when to pull the plug. Whats the point? Your getting this upset over some fucking knives and leather sheaths. Keep it in perspective, go give someone a hug and get the fuck over it.
I sincerely hope you offer an apology and give this time to cool off. The people here are great and forgiving, they are better people than I am. Over time they will forget this, but you will always remember (and hopefully regret) the time you showed your ass on Blade Forums. Don't make it any worse for yourself, shut it down.
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I wasn't going to reply to this thread but what was written in this quote changed that. I wanted to thank you for your professionalism, honesty, and most of all, compassion, with that family. Truly a heartbreaking moment to have to go through. Thank you.

Anthony
 
necrolicious said:
I wasn't going to reply to this thread but what was written in this quote changed that. I wanted to thank you for your professionalism, honesty, and most of all, compassion, with that family. Truly a heartbreaking moment to have to go through. Thank you.

Anthony
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You are very welcome, sir. Its an honor to be there for people in their times of need.
 
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