Price drop?

I don't think Benchmade is making any of this price increase money, the seller is. The dealer is making more money. They are also being told how to run part of their business. Upping the price to come in line with the online dealers? I don't think so. To be a Benchmade dealer, according to tier site, you have to have a brick and mortar building, just some of the sell more on the internet. That's my take on it. I will continue to buy Benchmade, just jot two more!

Dave
 
I won't buy a Bencmade for MAP price . Ill buy them from the exchange . I just got a 585 sweet knife even sweeter for the price I got it . The only knife a would pay full price is the 940-1 but I can wait since it's not a limited .
 
I honestly don't see a good reason to swear them off over this. At the end of the day regardless of personal opinions, companies are accountable only to their shareholders or their equivalent and I for one can accept that while often the end consumer feels they get the short end of the stick, decisions made by a company are ultimately made in the interest of the success of that company. I'll still buy a knife if I decide it is one I wish to own and I can afford it.

But remember that this doesn't put a dime in Benchmade's revenues - it's all going into dealers' pockets.
 
But remember that this doesn't put a dime in Benchmade's revenues - it's all going into dealers' pockets.

IMO, I think this is going to hurt dealers more than it will help them. I visited Smokey Mountain knife works after the MAP pricing enforcement and they (SMKW) were still higher than Roger and Knifeworks in LA.
 
But remember that this doesn't put a dime in Benchmade's revenues - it's all going into dealers' pockets.

Your probably right, but keeping your dealers happy is important since they put money in the company pocket. As for the end purchasers, I'm not privy to sales data but I'm willing to bet that a little loss was factored in to the decision.
 
IMO, I think this is going to hurt dealers more than it will help them. I visited Smokey Mountain knife works after the MAP pricing enforcement and they (SMKW) were still higher than Roger and Knifeworks in LA.

I think this depends on the dealer, specialty cutlery shops are probably going to be hurt a little, but also carry enough variety brand wise to possibly offset the love lost for BM. I suspect however, that it is in favor of much larger retailers, ie the kind that likely buy small mountains of extremely popular SKUs (ie Griptillians, etc)
 
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I understand why they did it. That being said I don't plan on buying anymore Benchmade knives in the near future. To me they aren't worth their new prices.
 
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It's the new and current reality.

I'm glad some of us had about a 5-7 day window before all dealers raised their prices to MAP. I got all the ones I could've wanted plus Christmas gifts and extras. Any future gifts will come from stock or other manufacturers.

Now, I'm only in for two of the new ones because they have upgraded steel and handle. They're priced higher than I'd like, for the perceived quality that you get, but I want them nevertheless:

  1. 484: Axis Lock, contoured G-10 scales and 3" M390 (60-62HRC) blade
  2. 940-1: Axis Lock, CF scales and 3.4" CPM-S90V (59-61HRC) blade
 
I don't think Benchmade is making any of this price increase money, the seller is. The dealer is making more money. They are also being told how to run part of their business. Upping the price to come in line with the online dealers? I don't think so. To be a Benchmade dealer, according to tier site, you have to have a brick and mortar building, just some of the sell more on the internet. That's my take on it. I will continue to buy Benchmade, just jot two more!

Dave

While Benchmade is requiring new dealers to have a brick and mortar location, they have not always set that as a bar for getting started. Also, especially for some of their older dealers, they are sometimes loose with what "brick and mortar means". And the MAP that is being enforced now was something that every single one of their existing dealers agreed to when they became dealers - they just finally came down on those dealers that were violating the terms of their dealer agreements. Benchmade has a vested interest in seeing their product sold close to the MSRP that they set, even though they see the same money regardless of whether a specific piece is sold at 10% or 40% off. They want to grow their brick and mortar dealer network, because they feel that putting their knife in a customer's hand is the best way to sell it. But that won't happen when online stores cut the knees out from under the brick and mortars. And, while this is a bit anecdotal, my local brick and mortar sells at MSRP, and has drastically increased their Benchmade sales in the last couple of years.

And while this is off-topic, MAP is getting rolled out by several of Benchmade's competitors because dealers would rather carry something that they know they can make an actual margin (Benchmade, ZT) on as opposed to something they can't (Spyderco).
 
While Benchmade is requiring new dealers to have a brick and mortar location, they have not always set that as a bar for getting started. Also, especially for some of their older dealers, they are sometimes loose with what "brick and mortar means". And the MAP that is being enforced now was something that every single one of their existing dealers agreed to when they became dealers - they just finally came down on those dealers that were violating the terms of their dealer agreements. Benchmade has a vested interest in seeing their product sold close to the MSRP that they set, even though they see the same money regardless of whether a specific piece is sold at 10% or 40% off. They want to grow their brick and mortar dealer network, because they feel that putting their knife in a customer's hand is the best way to sell it. But that won't happen when online stores cut the knees out from under the brick and mortars. And, while this is a bit anecdotal, my local brick and mortar sells at MSRP, and has drastically increased their Benchmade sales in the last couple of years.

And while this is off-topic, MAP is getting rolled out by several of Benchmade's competitors because dealers would rather carry something that they know they can make an actual margin (Benchmade, ZT) on as opposed to something they can't (Spyderco).


No-one was violating the MAP before - search for a Benchmade knife and you wouldn't find it advertised for any less than 15% off of MSRP. That was the Minimum Advertised Price and dealers stuck to it - lower prices were sometimes available but not advertised. What is being enforced now is not an MAP policy but more akin to a unilateral pricing policy where dealers cannot sell for less than 15% off of MSRP at all.

And if making an "actual margin" was a concern - why are there dealers who are perfectly willing to sell, for example, 0560/0561s for less than the MAP price of $260? If the margin was that big of a deal, they'd just stick to that and say they couldn't budge lower. But since they're willing to sell for lower, and regularly (not just for temporary sales), that kind of suggests that they think that either a) the MAP is overvaluing the product, and it needs to be lower to move properly or b) they can make more even with a smaller margin from a higher volume of sales driven by a lower price. ZT dealers still have the option to make that call and find the balance themselves should they choose, even if they can't advertise that lower price. BM dealers no longer have the option available to them.
 
The best way to show displeasure with pricing (and this goes for everything, including sporting events) is to stop purchasing said product. Most companies only understand their bottom line and profits.
 
The best way to show displeasure with pricing (and this goes for everything, including sporting events) is to stop purchasing said product. Most companies only understand their bottom line and profits.
And I think this is what may happen. Keep supporting the dealer, but do it by purchasing a different brand. The dealer stays in business, and Benchmade gets the hint when dealers don't order as much BM product because it doesn't sell at the enforced price.
 
Your probably right, but keeping your dealers happy is important since they put money in the company pocket. As for the end purchasers, I'm not privy to sales data but I'm willing to bet that a little loss was factored in to the decision.

Yes, there's a lot we don't know, such as how much of Benchmade's dealers' sales are made online (where discounts were more prevalent) or how much this price hike will hurt sales volume (even Benchmade is going to need at least several quarters to get some insight on that).
 
Myself, I have stopped buying Benchmade.
I own 7, and I feel I paid fair prices for what I got. Now they're just too dear IMO.
I can't get myself interested in the why's and wherefore's of the price hike, it's as simple as do I think they are worth the price I pay.
I'm not saying I will not buy another BM. But I had planned to buy 2 early this year, now I am buying another brand.
 
No, I don't think a price drop will ever happen again. As far as dealers carrying brands they can make margins off of, there a lot of dealers pissed about this and would rather sell a bunch of BMs for a little profit each than sell a few for higher profit each. How do you think some of these dealers feel that have tons of inventory they may have ordered for the Christmas season, and then got the bomb dropped on them about MAP enforcement? Now they're sitting on a lot of product that will take longer to move. People who want knives will still buy from them, probably another brand instead, but all that BM product is just sitting in the warehouse not moving.

And along with other factors that contributed to most all companies prices to go up a little this year, BM was no exception. Now that previously $62-$65 standard mini grip, later $85, is now $89.25 at a lot of retailers. Almost $90 for a mini grip? I know 1 or 2 outstanding S30V w/ G10 knives from other companies for that price. Of course, if you do enough digging online you might find a dealer or two not necessarily playing by the new rules..

Will I buy any new BMs? I don't know, but I do like their customer service and blade replacement policy if I need it. Who knows when that'll change though...
 
IIRC, Spyderco experimented with something similar ~10 years ago, and they eventually reversed the policy. Never say never...
 
They have the right to enforce their policies and proceed as they see fit. I won't call them names but I'll protest the change in the best way I know. I cancelled two preorders and convinced two friends to cancel theirs and buy Spyderco instead. If you want it reversed convince everyone to boycott them until it's reversed.
 
No-one was violating the MAP before - search for a Benchmade knife and you wouldn't find it advertised for any less than 15% off of MSRP. That was the Minimum Advertised Price and dealers stuck to it - lower prices were sometimes available but not advertised. What is being enforced now is not an MAP policy but more akin to a unilateral pricing policy where dealers cannot sell for less than 15% off of MSRP at all.

And if making an "actual margin" was a concern - why are there dealers who are perfectly willing to sell, for example, 0560/0561s for less than the MAP price of $260? If the margin was that big of a deal, they'd just stick to that and say they couldn't budge lower. But since they're willing to sell for lower, and regularly (not just for temporary sales), that kind of suggests that they think that either a) the MAP is overvaluing the product, and it needs to be lower to move properly or b) they can make more even with a smaller margin from a higher volume of sales driven by a lower price. ZT dealers still have the option to make that call and find the balance themselves should they choose, even if they can't advertise that lower price. BM dealers no longer have the option available to them.

Of course you can't find them selling below MAP now, that's what this thread is about. Plenty of dealers violated Benchmade's MAP before the recent changes, and I'm sure that there are those out there that do so on ZT (though, in just a quick check, the only 0560 or 0561, or their variants, that were sold below $260 were on eBay or Amazon, at least in the first 12 sites I checked that were selling, with a search of "ZT 0560"), and the difference right now is that ZT isn't as strictly enforcing their's as Benchmade is. The problem popped up because of a "difference in opinion" over what violating MAP looked like - specifically, plenty of online retailers tried to get around MAP by advertising a 15% discount and then a coupon that would take an additional discount off the original price, or having you give the retailer your email so you could get a price that would have clearly violated MAP if it was posted.

It's obviously not a verified scientific but of research, but based on the search I did, ZT MAP is being followed pretty closely by the big online retailers (except for Amazon, but that's a totally different story), so I'm guessing that either they are being required to stay at no lower than that price (same as Benchmade) or they are all colluding together to not post a lower price (unlikely, but funny, and not just because I like the work "colluding"). The balance to find is whether you can sell more at MAP, at MSRP, or somewhere in between - and that's going to depend a lot on whether you have a retail location where customers can come and handle the product before buying or whether you sell knives out of your garage. I know a lot of brick and mortar stores can make a pretty good argument that the services you get from coming into their stores are worth a few extra bucks.

You bring up an interesting issue though - that MAP can lead to overvaluing a product. One of the reasons for MAP is to keep a product from becoming undervalued. There is a thing called perceived value of a product, and essentially it means that there is a price which is too cheap or too high and going past either one will kill your sales. And what the consistent violation of MAP has done is to reduce the perceived value of the products involved. It's what's happening to Spyderco (outside of Blade Forums) - almost all of their knives are easily found at or below wholesale cost, and this consistent discounting of more than 50% makes the pricing for their whole line seem ludicrous to customers (and dealers). And in customer's (and again, in dealer's) eyes, the product isn't worth as much (of a lower quality) than those products which sell closer to their MSRP. Which is one other things that Benchmade wants to avoid, which is why they have reinforced their pricing policies. If that means you stop buying their knives, that's a bummer. I'm personally getting the 940-1 the minute it comes into my local shop.
 
Just to clarify, with ZT now MAP (20% off MSRP instead of Benchmade's 15%) is being enforced only in the form that you cannot publicly advertise below MAP as a bonafide ZT dealer. Most abide when a new knife has just been introduced and/or the stocks are low. However, you can find many legitimate ZT dealers selling for 35% off MSRP once an item is readily available. They all do it in different ways and different extents.

In the current calculus, you can get a ZT 0801 with titanium FrameLock, Elmax, flipper and titanium handles for $25 less than the Benchmade 940 with Axis Lock, S30V, thumbstuds and aluminum handles!
 
I hope they dont drop prices any time soon being that I just bought a brand new 940 lol
 
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