Price gouging/flipping and sales offers/comments

[rycen]

A note to those come here and flip limited edition,sprint runs etc. If you want to act like a dealer you might have to pay for that dealer membership.

To the members of you that feel the need to comment when somebody does this,it's better to report the post so we are aware of constant flipping rather then receive a warning/infraction.


While we don't have a specific rule regarding offers currently it is much better left to private communication.

 

[KELAMA]

A note to those come here and flip limited edition,sprint runs etc. If you want to act like a dealer you might have to pay for that dealer membership.

To the members of you that feel the need to comment when somebody does this,it's better to report the post so we are aware of constant flipping rather then receive a warning/infraction.


While we don't have a specific rule regarding offers currently it is much better left to private communication.

Rycen- Thank you very much, for starting this thread.

The Wednesday release of the ZT 0392 Ti LE, was a much anticipated event, & the topic of several contentious threads, in the knife discussion forum.

The fact that this specific member, was lucky enough to purchase this knife, (with the sole intention to flip), is absolutely his prerogative, however, as a member who really wanted the opportunity to own one of these knives, with the sole intention to keep, this type of attitude (here on BladeForums) definitely rubbed me the wrong way...not much of a brotherhood spirit.

I think it is very apparent, where I stand on this issue; I hope that some of the other member's who tried in vain to land one of these ZT LE model's, (without luck) will chime in here- I'm very interested to learn what other member's take is, on this subject.

 

[rycen]

I want to make this clear it is not about one person or one sales thread

 

[craytab]

A note to those come here and flip limited edition,sprint runs etc. If you want to act like a dealer you might have to pay for that dealer membership.

To the members of you that feel the need to comment when somebody does this,it's better to report the post so we are aware of constant flipping rather then receive a warning/infraction.


While we don't have a specific rule regarding offers currently it is much better left to private communication.

Good post. Of course most people should know this stuff already as it is all in the rules but it is good to remind folks

You might be a dealer if.....http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/announcement.php?f=764&a=23

For sales threads are for about the the sale only: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/announcement.php?f=746&a=98

Rule #5 under "Buyers/Buying": Do not post in a person's thread unless you have an implicit interest in buying the item. Posts like, "Nice knife!", "Why is the price so high/low?", "I wish I had funds" are not allowed. This means absolutely no commentary or feedback in someone's sales thread. Seriously, if you stomp on someone's ad, your account can and will be locked. The only exception to this is in the Knife Makers Market areas (if the maker/craftsman requests and welcomes feedback).

And making offers privately should just be common sense.

 

[jstn]

I am curious as to what defines "flipping". I regularly see customs knives with long wait times received and sold for much more than they were bought directly from the maker, yet I don't see people getting upset over this.

And what if someone buys a LE ZT with the intent of keeping it, but decide to sell it and the market price is much higher than what they paid. Should they feel obligated to price it at MSRP? At what point does it become okay to sell it at an inflated price, one month, two months, one year? There are certainly limited edition knives that have sat in a safe and eventually get sold for much over their original price. I see it all the time with sprint run Paramilitary 2 models.

I guess I am just confused on why this seems to be an issue with Zero Tolerance Limited Editions almost exclusively. It seems like capitalism at work and nothing more.

 

[majen]

I am curious as to what defines "flipping". I regularly see customs knives with long wait times received and sold for much more than they were bought directly from the maker, yet I don't see people getting upset over this.

And what if someone buys a LE ZT with the intent of keeping it, but decide to sell it and the market price is much higher than what they paid. Should they feel obligated to price it at MSRP? At what point does it become okay to sell it at an inflated price, one month, two months, one year? There are certainly limited edition knives that have sat in a safe and eventually get sold for much over their original price. I see it all the time with sprint run Paramilitary 2 models.

I guess I am just confused on why this seems to be an issue with Zero Tolerance Limited Editions almost exclusively. It seems like capitalism at work and nothing more.

This sounds right to me..

 

[rycen]

This thread certainly is not just about one manufacturer at all.

Flipping as in selling for a profit quickly and repeatedly.

 

[evanPGH]

This sounds right to me..

Seconded.

 

[Quiet]

Remember, flippers exist because there are plenty of people will pay whatever they have to pay in order to get their hands on something they want. It just is what it is. I hate flippers as much as the next person, but let's not forget: they're a symptom, not the problem itself.

 

[jprime84]

I was lucky enough to get a 0392 and its on the way now. Initially I was trying to purchase one assuming I would not be able to get it. Its the first LE I have been able to purchase. Now, my first instinct is to keep it. However, given the market value of these after release it is incredibly tempting to see if I could make some money on my fortune. Its the reality of supply and demand. I honestly don't know what I will do until I get it in my hands.

 

[jill jackson]

Remember, flippers exist because there are plenty of people will pay whatever they have to pay in order to get their hands on something they want. It just is what it is. I hate flippers as much as the next person, but let's not forget: they're a symptom, not the problem itself.

I'm the next person and I don't hate flippers.

 

[Zidfeldts]

Being a knife hoarder and trader (I have never sold one) I believe that if you make money on your knives you should pay a dealers membership.

 

[TOMBSTONE]

Certain patterns are obvious. It's easy to spot patterns of abuse.

 

[Quiet]

I'm the next person and I don't hate flippers.

Awesome, here's a high five (well, a thumbs up anyway)! :thumbup:

Being a knife hoarder and trader (I have never sold one) I believe that if you make money on your knives you should pay a dealers membership.

The issue there is that 1. there's no way the admin staff of this board could ever oversee that and 2. who's to say where the cutoff level for money made is. As an example, there are plenty of dealers who charge entirely too much for their knives. A Benchmade whatever at BF-Sponsor dealer is (as an example) $150. I find that same knife from a reputable Ebay dealer for $100. I sell the knife here for $140, should I have to be a dealer because I made $40? Absolutely the only person who would know I'd made that $40 is me. So....?

 

[jprime84]

Being a knife hoarder and trader (I have never sold one) I believe that if you make money on your knives you should pay a dealers membership.

If you make a substantial portion of your income on the sale of knives, you are a dealer. If you happen to make some money on a rare knife that you have owned a few times a year, then that hardly makes you a dealer. Thats my opinion, of course.

 

[Bludgeon]

Everything sold is flipped for an increased profit with the exception of handmade items created by the seller. That is just the way the world works, knives are no different. A dealer is no more than a licensed flipper of products, it's how people make a living. If these LE's didn't have a increased resale value most of the people that ordered one would most likely not drop $375.00 on it if they plan on keeping it or not.

 

[deskil]

This thread certainly is not just about one manufacturer at all.

Flipping as in selling for a profit quickly and repeatedly.

Can you define quickly (a week, two weeks, a month, a year...) and repeatedly (2x,3x,4x...) ?
I hope it's not like - no, I can't define it, but I know it when I see it.

 

[ShepardCC]

Rycen- Thank you very much, for starting this thread.

The Wednesday release of the ZT 0392 Ti LE, was a much anticipated event, & the topic of several contentious threads, in the knife discussion forum.

The fact that this specific member, was lucky enough to purchase this knife, (with the sole intention to flip), is absolutely his prerogative, however, as a member who really wanted the opportunity to own one of these knives, with the sole intention to keep, this type of attitude (here on BladeForums) definitely rubbed me the wrong way...not much of a brotherhood spirit.

I think it is very apparent, where I stand on this issue; I hope that some of the other member's who tried in vain to land one of these ZT LE model's, (without luck) will chime in here- I'm very interested to learn what other member's take is, on this subject.

I agree completely with everything you said.
I also agree with Rycen that it's not just the one said person or knife.
I've seen this with several knives...mostly from one maker but yes it bothered me also.
To buy a knife just to flip it at double or triple the price is just bad everything. All you did was buy it...and you did so in expectation to be paid 600 to 1100 in profit just because you bought it and owned it for a few days...having nothing else to do with it...you didn't make it, fix it, hold on to it for decades in pristine condition and care for it....it's just ludicrous.

One easy thing to stop this...zt cough cough...would be to simply make enough to meet demand. Obviously there are more people that want the knives then there are knives available, so demand is there. The more of anything you make the more you sell and therefore have a better opportunity to cover more of your cost and take in more profit. Even if you want to do a short run to see if the demand is there with the option to make more is fine. It still behooves me after all the troubles this has caused that this isn't a solution they've come up with. Just my 2 cents on the matter.

Sorry to go off topic a little. But I think that would really help with the flipping.

 

[Scurvy092]

Everything sold is flipped for an increased profit with the exception of handmade items created by the seller. That is just the way the world works, knives are no different. A dealer is no more than a licensed flipper of products, it's how people make a living. If these LE's didn't have a increased resale value most of the people that ordered one would most likely not drop $375.00 on it if they plan on keeping it or not.

The vast majority of knives decrease in value when purchased.

And people drop $400+ on knives all the time that don't go up in value. Microtech, Chris reeve, strider etc etc etc don't go up in value.

 

[Scurvy092]

I think if you're an active member who once in a while scores on a knife and then sells it for a profit, no big deal. Sometimes people genuinely don't like a knife or have to sell for another reason and they'd be stupid to not get market value.

On the other hand. If the majority of your posts is in the for sale section and you're constantly turning over limited editions or customs as 'catch & release' you're a dealer. If you've figured out a way to scam the system with a dealer hookup or everyone in your home town trying to score you multiples to sell at a profit, you are DEFINITELY A DEALER.