Price increases blown out of proportion?

TravisL

TravisL

Joined
May 15, 2016
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105
I’m seeing a lot of talk about this especially here and the Benchmade sub forum. Are we talking $5-$10 on the higher end knives or are we talking a $100 Tenacious. Don’t get me wrong, the number of knives some people buy would make that $5 or $10 hurt more then me buying one a couple times a year. I wish I could buy more. So fill me in. Is it inflation or the knife apocalypse?
 
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It Is what it is. You can watch the exchange after new knives hit the market. Some folks sell them for a bit lower than they bought them for.

I'm not too bothered by it from companies selling quality (bad when companies lack in qc tho).

In a perfect day an age we would be able to buy direct for best pricing. But that's not a big thing in the knife world.

the price we pay for quality tools is worth it I think. But not every one is fortunate or wants to spend that much for a tool.
 
Complaining about the cost of one’s blade hobby is truly a First Class Problem. The relentless pursuit of perfection will always be more and more expensive. I certainly can’t complain because I’m just hooked. The fact that I have a perfectly good knife in hand, doesn’t keep me from getting on this forum to find a “better” one. So, I can’t see anyone here having a legitimate complaint.

Heck, the older I get, the more I wish I didn’t remember the cost of anything. The Five & Dime is now The Dollar Store! Need I say more?
 
I think Spyderco held off price increases as long as they could. Providing the quality is there, I’ll be a Spyderco buyer for life. However, I will be selective in my 2018 knife purchases (I say that every year). On a side note, Benchmade is increasing their prices again.
 
Again , I have no issue whatsoever with a price increase. I'm sure Sal and Eric know what they're doing. Aside from being top notch knife designers , they're obviously intelligent and experienced businessmen. Look how succesful Spyderco has become. It's an outstanding company. I'm happy to pay for quality.

Keep up the good work Sal. Looking forward to some Shaman sprints.
 
TravisL said:
Are we talking $5-$10 on the higher end knives or are we talking a $100 Tenacious...
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The difference from the MAP adjustment on something like the standard Para2, with an MSRP of $209.95, is an increase of about $10.50 to the advertised street price. Hardly world-ending imo, but you wouldn't know it reading some of the threads out there.

Some models might also have an MSRP adjustment, but I haven't heard much about that side.
 
The MAP change equates to an 8% bump for Spyderco across the board. On top of that some models will see an increase in MSRP.
 
I just don t like MAP. Price fixing takes some of the fun out of shopping, whether it be for knives or cars. Many businesses, including Spyderco, have been historically sucessful without price fixing. Raising prices to go to the company doesn t bother me as much as raising prices to guarantee a non competitive income increase for the retailers. I realize that competitors like BM and ZT use MAP, but Spyderco might use that to its advantage to increase market share.
Is that idea too radical? Pure capitalism (at the retail level) may be out dated. I hope not.
 
DJC72 said:
I think Spyderco held off price increases as long as they could. Providing the quality is there, I’ll be a Spyderco buyer for life. However, I will be selective in my 2018 knife purchases (I say that every year). On a side note, Benchmade is increasing their prices again.
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Well said. :thumbsup:
 
Hi Whp,

Map is an advertising thing, not a price fixing thing. Some companies do use it for price fixing, but Spyderco only enforces "Minimum Advertised Price". This gives our dealers more options and more control. Pure Capitalism means Amazon and Wal-Mart are the main sources.

sal
 
I'm not a fan and will buy fewer Spydies as their value proposition decreases in regard to their competition, but I still expect them to make up the majority of my knife purchases in 2018, so take it as you will.
 
So the big guys buy in huge bulk. Not being an insider I can't be sure of exact details but I suspect as anything else the more you buy, the better your price. And on top of that you may be able go leverage longer terms for payment and other benefits. Freight is another cost that can be better spread across a larger order.

So when that big guy buys 1000 PM2s they get them for much less than the brick and mortar shop. Then they can sell them for less and draw their business away till they have to either drop the line or close up their shop. For us that means less chance to hold a knife in hand before buying it . So no chance to see if it suits you and no chance to see other items you hadn't considered after just an online viewing.

From reading prior posts it's clear that Spyderco has a long lasting relationship with the small knife seller. They were the folks who supported Spyderco in the days before the net and just dropping them to deal with the big dogs would be an easy way to reduce the workload in the office and make the big guys happy by squashing those pesky little stores to eliminate competition.

So when everyone has to advertise the same price the big guys who have all the high cards are forced to compete on other levels than pure price. It's very typical for someone to walk in a store and say "you're selling this for $120 but I can get it for $80 elsewhere" and expect a price match. For whatever reason they don't want to buy from the person selling at $80 (that's a whole other mystery) but want the item right now today at X price. And that doesn't take into account that the place selling at $80 paid $70 due to their size and the the guy selling at $120 paid $100 because they only could buy two to put in the case.

Blade HQ would be a place I'd pick to use as an example of a store that has a huge presence but they use their size to create situations that benefit them and their customers and don't compete on lowest common denominator. They create special order that they can set the MSRP on since they're the only ones selling it. They can win over more customers who want to see more exclusive models and get customers who will order that green jade/M4 Manix and then look at a few other things to top up the cart.
 
Danke42 said:
So the big guys buy in huge bulk. Not being an insider I can't be sure of exact details but I suspect as anything else the more you buy, the better your price. And on top of that you may be able go leverage longer terms for payment and other benefits. Freight is another cost that can be better spread across a larger order.

So when that big guy buys 1000 PM2s they get them for much less than the brick and mortar shop.
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No, I don't think that's the case with Spyderco. I distinctly recall a post by Kristi on the Spyderco board saying that they do not give volume discounts. Sorry I can't cite the post right now. You would still be right about saving on shipping for a large order.
 
Hi Danke,

Pricing to dealers is usually close. But, big volume dealers will run products at "lost leaders" (less than their cost) to get people "in the door". Thus MAP.

sal
 
AF said:
No, I don't think that's the case with Spyderco. I distinctly recall a post by Kristi on the Spyderco board saying that they do not give volume discounts. Sorry I can't cite the post right now. You would still be right about saving on shipping for a large order.
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Like I said I'm not an insider so these are best guesses based on how other manufacturers sell to distributors or dealers.

Bottom line is that the bigger the store; the more leverage it has. Unless you're an insider with some special privileges that advantage the big guys have usually doesn't translate into a win for the average consumer unless it's a situation like the BHQ one where they make those M4/Jade models that they have an exclusive on. The price of those is great and for most they're a desirable steel and handle material.
 
Danke42 said:
So when everyone has to advertise the same price the big guys who have all the high cards are forced to compete on other levels than pure price. It's very typical for someone to walk in a store and say "you're selling this for $120 but I can get it for $80 elsewhere" and expect a price match. For whatever reason they don't want to buy from the person selling at $80 (that's a whole other mystery) but want the item right now today at X price.
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I've worked in the retail food industry for just shy of 44 years, and I've always wondered that myself. Mystery indeed.
 
Because the store selling for $80 is not convenient to you or the store you want a price match from has a rewards program, "no hassle" returns, etc.
 
Hi Sal, likely the only opportunity I'll ever get to correct you: loss leader, because it's sold at a loss.

I work for a large (as in $50B+) manufacturing company. We give lower prices for larger volume. After that it's flat. You don't get a better price for 10K vs. 1K units. Maybe the sales guys are cutting some deals that are not widely known about?

Nobody likes raising prices. As costs go up, your choices are to raise prices, use cheaper materials, find cheaper labor (much harder than it sounds), or make manufacturing changes to get costs down, which often has other consequences. For my company labor in "low cost" Asian counties (Vietnam, China, India, for example) have been going up dramatically over the past 10 years. If I recall correctly, wages in Vietnam are up 4x.

Spyderco and others price products s where they need to. I guarantee they understand that some people will make other purchasing decisions. I look at the value of every individual knife when I am buying it, not what it cost last year.

Edit: removed some fluff.
 
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colin.p said:
I've worked in the retail food industry for just shy of 44 years, and I've always wondered that myself. Mystery indeed.
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Used to work in a bike shop in bargain hunter town long before the net. Saturday morning we'd get someone in looking for a specific hockey skate in the winter or a child carrier in the summer to pick a couple examples. They'd see we had it and take note of the price. Then they'd do a great circle route across the city to every other store and then return before five to note they could get at X store for X dollars and ask us to match.

Now depending on their demeanor and how well we knew them and of course how crazy their quote was we'd sometimes make the sale to close out the day or move some old stock. More often than not though we'd just get stubborn and say no; if store X has it at that price then buy it from store X.

Then the folks would get mad and say they'd just wasted their whole Saturday and don't want to drive back to store X , or store X had the wrong colour or didn't have their size etc. or that the one at store X was a lower level model and they wanted the nice one we had. Sometimes you could get a real special case that would buy the item they didn't want at the location with the cheapest price and then they'd want to swap with us for ours. No way to reasonably answer that person why we flat out would say no.

Now the very worst folks to deal with in these cases fortunately don't cross over too much into knives in the same way. The unhappiest shoppers were parents buying gear for their kids that was mandated for use in their chosen sport but somehow they felt was the organizing body was picking their pockets. Made even worse by their kids outgrowing the stuff a couple times a season . The nearest I can find to them in the world of knives are the folks who constantly post replies with a screed on why brand or knife X is overpriced. If it's priced to high just vote with your wallet and move on.
 
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