Problem with a trade-Seager

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xICEMANx

xICEMANx

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Ok this is my first thread like this so bear with me. I recently agreed to a trade with memeber Seager. I posted a thread in the trading section wanting to trade for a Lionsteel SR1a. Seager contacted me saying he had one new in box and wanted to trade.

I offered a Spyderco Paramilitary 2 with grismo scales. I had purchased the scales off another forum member a few months back. All went well with the trade. We had great communication and sent tracking numbers, etc.

The knives arrived on the same day and I left him postitive feedback. He responsed to my email saying the para 2 came and " all is good". I proceeded to carry the knife and use it like I normally would.

Later that day I receive an email from him stating the scales aren't real Grismo scales and we have a problem. I happened to be browsing the exchange and noticed he had my para 2 for sale for $280. Apparently, someone contacted him and notified him they where not Grismo scales, but ones sold on Blade HQ made by Allen Putman.

This was news to me. I was told by the previous owner they where Grismo scales by the previous member and trusted he was telling me the truth. At the time I only knew of John Grismo producing cnc machined aluminum scales for the Para 2. I apologized saying I was misinformed and asked what he wanted to do.

I described the knives condition to the best of my ability.

He got very snippy with me and made me feel like I had intentionally deceived him. We agreed to reverse the trade and ship today. I even offered to ship first. I again apologized but he continued to belittle me telling me I was responsible for knowing that they where Grismo scales.

I later got an email from him saying that he wanted his knife back in new condition, even though I had disclosed to him I had used the knife to cut fruit and carried it that day. He then emailed me saying he's not sending my knife back until he receives his in "new" condition. This is obviously not possible. I used the knife after I had confirmed with him "all is good".

Now, I can not get him to respond to me at all. I told him I would be glad to ship first, but I would not wait for him to receive the Lionsteel for him to ship back my Para 2. I've done numerous trades on Bladeforums and it's never been the case. Nornmally the parties agree on a set date and email the tracking numbers. That's all I asked, once I send my tracking number, I would appreciate if you would do the same. That's what he had agreed on and now he is saying he won't ship my knife back without "inspecting" the Lionsteel in "new" condition. I printed my shipping label today and sent him the tracking number. It's been over 5 hours now with no response. My last email to him said." I sent this to you earlier but here it is again.

tracking#
If I don't receive a tracking number within 24 hours I will void this label. The ball is in your court.

I realize a number does not indicate actual shipment but we had agreed to ship the same day and would be a sign of good faith to me. After his hostile response I'm not shipping the knife out until I know he has.

I'm looking for advice on how to handle the situation and if I have handled anything incorrectly.

Thanks
 
How I see it... He said he was fine with your knife so you used the Lionsteel. He then decided he wasn't OK with it and wants the Lionsteel back in unused condition and wants to hold the knife you sent as ransom. He's being less than pleasant...
If he wants a mint condition Lionsteel, he'll have to buy a new one. Since he already decided to hold your knife ransom, you should keep the Lionsteel and I'd say he's out of luck. The trade is complete.

Of course... there are 2 sides to every story and we should hear Seager's.
 
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xICEMANx- In my opinion it's sounds like you met the bladeforums requirements and are now going above and beyond those requirements. If the facts are correctly stated I see no reason to reverse the trade. You obviously aren't able to return a brand new knife. How will returning a used knife solve the problem?

I've had no deals with Seager however he did contact me this week about doing a trade. It didn't work out. We probably both over valued our knives and under valued the other guys. No big deal as that's normal operating procedure around here right. :) That was fine with me but I thought maybe he took it personally that I disagreed with his opinion. I'd describe his behavior as gruff.

I don't add my experience to say he's a bad guy. Maybe he felt like I was trying to rip him off. He probably feels the same way with you. Honest mistakes happen and sometimes the best we can do is learn the lesson and move on.

I agree with barcbsa, we need to hear his point of view of your trade as well.
 
A. is he a Grismo expert??? How does he know for sure they are not. Third party internet Ninjas are all experts. If you were satisfied they were Grismo scales when you got it then I'd say you traded with your best knowledge in good faith.
B. If he will not send your knife back until he receives his in "new condition" and you have already explained that after he said all is good you used the knife, so it is impossible to send the knife back in new condition, then I would consider the trade done and done. I don't personally think the "the deal is not done until both parties are happy" rule applies here because of circumstances. You'll probably get some negative feed back....so be it. Enjoy your Lionsteel.

Paul
 
sheathmaker said:
A. is he a Grismo expert??? How does he know for sure they are not. Third party internet Ninjas are all experts. If you were satisfied they were Grismo scales when you got it then I'd say you traded with your best knowledge in good faith.
B. If he will not send your knife back until he receives his in "new condition" and you have already explained that after he said all is good you used the knife, so it is impossible to send the knife back in new condition, then I would consider the trade done and done. I don't personally think the "the deal is not done until both parties are happy" rule applies here because of circumstances. You'll probably get some negative feed back....so be it. Enjoy your Lionsteel.

Paul
Click to expand...

I agree with Paul.. He is a wiseman :)
 
I think if it can be confirmed that the scales aren't Grismos, and there's a value difference between when they are and Grismos, you might owe him a few bucks at worst. Most likely there's not enough difference in value to worry about, and the trade is done. He said all was good, you used the knife in good faith. For him to insist that you do the impossible is wrong. I'd like to hear his side, though.
 
Lone_Wolfe said:
I think if it can be confirmed that the scales aren't Grismos, and there's a value difference between when they are and Grismos, you might owe him a few bucks at worst. Most likely there's not enough difference in value to worry about, and the trade is done. He said all was good, you used the knife in good faith. For him to insist that you do the impossible is wrong. I'd like to hear his side, though.
Click to expand...

I even offered cash to help satisfy. The scales still sell for $80 on blade hq so there isn't much difference if any.
 
Yeah I can just see in my mind that if you send this knife back you may not ever get your para2 back. It is fair that you pay him 20 bucks.
 
Hello,

Thanks Rev Devil for the heads up!
No one posting to this thread knows me!... I'm not responding to anyone that has nothing involved in this...except administration!

This is pretty simple... XIcemanX posted he wanted a Lionsteel SR1 for a Spyderco Para 2 with GRIMSMO scales, we come to a deal... We both ship...all is good...knives arrive and everything looks good..... I'm happy as heck, I finally get to see what a set a Grimsmo's look and feel like and see what the hype is..so I email Iceman with all is good.... now back to my new GRIMSMO scales, to do the ogling! well after checking them out for a bit I decide the scales aren't for me, so I researched the value and I posted the Para 2 with Grimsmo scales,at what I concluded a price (that's my business) for rare scales. The post is up approx. 20 and I get an email that those aren't Grimsmo scales, along with a link where the scales originally came from...so I look the scales over, and sure enough, they are a total different brand that I can buy everyday! they aren't the rare Grimsmo scales that I traded for...So, I pulled the post, and contact Iceman and let him know that I received an email that the scales aren't Grimsmo scales and NOT to not use the Lionsteel until we get this worked out, not good....I get an email from him saying in total..."That's what I was told by a previous member I got them from", he says nothing else....
I emailed word for word "Tyler, Well they aren't, they came from Blade HQ, this knife is not worth to me what the Lionsteel is, the reason I traded was because of the Rare Grimsmo's. All I know is these scales were represented to me by you as Grimsmos! If you have a solution please let me know, if not, I want to reverse the trade per forum rules. Vernon", he emails back, Quote "Blade HQ sells grismo scales.Like I said I got them of the exchange and they where sold to me that way." that's all he writes...I write quote " what are you saying...let's just reverse the deal...These aren't Grimsmos!", that's all I write...he writes, quote "I found them on blade HQ. Made by Alan Putman. I was misrepresented by another forum member. I don't want to reverse the trade as I've used the Lionsteel. What would you suggest? I know blade HQ at one time did sell grismo scales", that's all he wrote... I emailed back "I want my brand new lionsteel in the box...it is your responsibility to know what you are selling...read the rules...I have been here a long time and this doesn't have to go this way...send my new Lionsteel back...if you think I'm wrong lets ask the guys on the forums...I have seen this many times, it usually don't end up good for the person in the wrong! your call!" that's all I wrote....then he wrote "I'll send it back if that's what you want. I had no intentions of miss representing. Like I said I was told they where and I trusted someone. I saw your for sale thread on the para 2. Sorry you couldn't sell it for what you wanted", that's all he says.....He writes again "Or I can make up the difference in price of you'd like"... I write "No, I'm very disappointed and riled up ... what would you suggest".. He writes " Again I'm sorry. I was told they were Grismo scales when I bought them. I'm upset the other member lied and ill just finding out. Would you want cash? the scales sell for 80 and Para 2's go for 100-130 on the exchange" I write "No, you don't get it, the Grimsmos are sold out they are rare...no more to be made anytime soon...this is the ONLY reason I traded with you...the difference in value doesn't get it... I'll sell you a buick that's just like a Cadillac", that's all I write... he writes "Ok them we can send the knives back. I'm bummed because I really like the SR1 but your right we should both be happy", that's all he writes... I write " OK, that's more like it...most of your emails crossed mine.... Send the knife back and everything is cool, I also liked this knife but it isn't worth $240. to me now that the scales aren't Grimsmo. I thought I was getting a decent trade that's why I did it, but the value isn't there... Vernon" He writes "Ok then. I'll try to ship tomorrow , please do the same"... I write " Are you shipping tomorrow or not?" He writes "Yes" I write "I'll put your knife in the mail as soon as I receive a tracking # from you... I really shouldn't send till I get the lionsteel back.. because you said you used it... Is it used? I get my knife back promptly in the same condition I sent it in and everything is cool. You need to dot your eyes and cross your tees before you do anything if you want to hang out around here! read the GBU most just take problems to the forums then its to late, and this place might not be all that to some... but the knife community is a small community, one screw up takes a long time to go away..... Later, Vernon Stephens" that's all I wrote... He writes" Yes I carried it around today and cut a banana with it. That's it. I use all my knives. your previous email said everything was good so I started to carry it. I will ship tomorrow but I will not wait for you to receive the knife before you ship. I have 100% feedback and have done nothing wrong here. I unknowingly represented the scales as Grismo scales because that's what the previous member told me, I admitted I was wrong in taking his word for it but I really don't like the way you've made it out like I did this on purpose. I can tell by your for sale thread that you were just trying to make a buck on the knife. I really don't care what people do with the knives I trade or sell, that's their prerogative, but like I said I did not knowingly do anything wrong. Not to mention the SR1 is not worth nearly what you think it is. you can get them all day for $180. the Para 2 with those scales is worth the same amount. I will ship it back to you tomorrow and provide tracking, I expect you to do the same. Thanks" that's all he wrote... I emailed back "This is my last email to you... and I am calm and serious, I will send you your knife back as soon as I receive my knife back in new condition.. I don't know you or how long you or how long you have been around here, but this doesn't fly, dancing around the actual problem doesn't solve anything... and it is visible to all.. Now back to explaining to everyone who emailed me why I misrepresented the Grimsmo scales on your knife...Vernon Stephens (address) Please send my knife back in new condition!" that's all.... all of this correspondence was on the same day.. He wrote me this morning "I sent you this earlier but here it is again. (tracking #) If I don't receive a tracking number within 24 hours I will void this label. The ball is in your court." that's it..........I did not respond to his prodding!...I said all I had to say in my last email to him! When I receive my knife back in new condition I will promptly send his knife back...With all his blunt, non communicative emails, I lost all trust in our deal and If he cut a banana with it that's all cool, I like bananas too... but what is the definition of use to him, I would like to see...and then return his knife, that I have only looked at! He received his end of the deal as agreed, I didn't....he misrepped his item, I didn't....He was very short in his emails right after I informed him the scales weren't Grimsmo... danced me around a bit at first, till he saw I wasn't going to walk away.....then he says the knife is used ... red flags everywhere!!! Why didn't he just say that in his first couple very short emails..


Tyler, Please return my Lionsteel in like new condition, I don't care if you cut a banana with it, but not all beat up, you only had it 6 hours before I told you not to use the Lionsteel, so it shouldn't be beat up! and then I will return your Para 2 with those scales! and yes I got a little hot, I don't have time to dance! Please read the forum rules thoroughly before posting something in the exchange next time... I have had your knife packaged since I found out what you sent me weren't Grimsmo... I care nothing about the Para 2, I just traded for the Grimsmo scales! and I received something else, if that's all good with everyone...than I'm missing something!

Well, that's my side...I will not be posting to this thread, if anyone has anything to say to me...you know how to contact me!
Tyler you know my email and my address!...
Everyone have a good morning, I sure did!
Vernon
 
Seager said:
Hello,

Thanks Rev Devil for the heads up!
No one posting to this thread knows me!... I'm not responding to anyone that has nothing involved in this...except administration!

This is pretty simple... XIcemanX posted he wanted a Lionsteel SR1 for a Spyderco Para 2 with GRIMSMO scales, we come to a deal... We both ship...all is good...knives arrive and everything looks good..... I'm happy as heck, I finally get to see what a set a Grimsmo's look and feel like and see what the hype is..so I email Iceman with all is good.... now back to my new GRIMSMO scales, to do the ogling! well after checking them out for a bit I decide the scales aren't for me, so I researched the value and I posted the Para 2 with Grimsmo scales,at what I concluded a price (that's my business) for rare scales. The post is up approx. 20 and I get an email that those aren't Grimsmo scales, along with a link where the scales originally came from...so I look the scales over, and sure enough, they are a total different brand that I can buy everyday! they aren't the rare Grimsmo scales that I traded for...So, I pulled the post, and contact Iceman and let him know that I received an email that the scales aren't Grimsmo scales and NOT to not use the Lionsteel until we get this worked out, not good....I get an email from him saying in total..."That's what I was told by a previous member I got them from", he says nothing else....
I emailed word for word "Tyler, Well they aren't, they came from Blade HQ, this knife is not worth to me what the Lionsteel is, the reason I traded was because of the Rare Grimsmo's. All I know is these scales were represented to me by you as Grimsmos! If you have a solution please let me know, if not, I want to reverse the trade per forum rules. Vernon", he emails back, Quote "Blade HQ sells grismo scales.Like I said I got them of the exchange and they where sold to me that way." that's all he writes...I write quote " what are you saying...let's just reverse the deal...These aren't Grimsmos!", that's all I write...he writes, quote "I found them on blade HQ. Made by Alan Putman. I was misrepresented by another forum member. I don't want to reverse the trade as I've used the Lionsteel. What would you suggest? I know blade HQ at one time did sell grismo scales", that's all he wrote... I emailed back "I want my brand new lionsteel in the box...it is your responsibility to know what you are selling...read the rules...I have been here a long time and this doesn't have to go this way...send my new Lionsteel back...if you think I'm wrong lets ask the guys on the forums...I have seen this many times, it usually don't end up good for the person in the wrong! your call!" that's all I wrote....then he wrote "I'll send it back if that's what you want. I had no intentions of miss representing. Like I said I was told they where and I trusted someone. I saw your for sale thread on the para 2. Sorry you couldn't sell it for what you wanted", that's all he says.....He writes again "Or I can make up the difference in price of you'd like"... I write "No, I'm very disappointed and riled up ... what would you suggest".. He writes " Again I'm sorry. I was told they were Grismo scales when I bought them. I'm upset the other member lied and ill just finding out. Would you want cash? the scales sell for 80 and Para 2's go for 100-130 on the exchange" I write "No, you don't get it, the Grimsmos are sold out they are rare...no more to be made anytime soon...this is the ONLY reason I traded with you...the difference in value doesn't get it... I'll sell you a buick that's just like a Cadillac", that's all I write... he writes "Ok them we can send the knives back. I'm bummed because I really like the SR1 but your right we should both be happy", that's all he writes... I write " OK, that's more like it...most of your emails crossed mine.... Send the knife back and everything is cool, I also liked this knife but it isn't worth $240. to me now that the scales aren't Grimsmo. I thought I was getting a decent trade that's why I did it, but the value isn't there... Vernon" He writes "Ok then. I'll try to ship tomorrow , please do the same"... I write " Are you shipping tomorrow or not?" He writes "Yes" I write "I'll put your knife in the mail as soon as I receive a tracking # from you... I really shouldn't send till I get the lionsteel back.. because you said you used it... Is it used? I get my knife back promptly in the same condition I sent it in and everything is cool. You need to dot your eyes and cross your tees before you do anything if you want to hang out around here! read the GBU most just take problems to the forums then its to late, and this place might not be all that to some... but the knife community is a small community, one screw up takes a long time to go away..... Later, Vernon Stephens" that's all I wrote... He writes" Yes I carried it around today and cut a banana with it. That's it. I use all my knives. your previous email said everything was good so I started to carry it. I will ship tomorrow but I will not wait for you to receive the knife before you ship. I have 100% feedback and have done nothing wrong here. I unknowingly represented the scales as Grismo scales because that's what the previous member told me, I admitted I was wrong in taking his word for it but I really don't like the way you've made it out like I did this on purpose. I can tell by your for sale thread that you were just trying to make a buck on the knife. I really don't care what people do with the knives I trade or sell, that's their prerogative, but like I said I did not knowingly do anything wrong. Not to mention the SR1 is not worth nearly what you think it is. you can get them all day for $180. the Para 2 with those scales is worth the same amount. I will ship it back to you tomorrow and provide tracking, I expect you to do the same. Thanks" that's all he wrote... I emailed back "This is my last email to you... and I am calm and serious, I will send you your knife back as soon as I receive my knife back in new condition.. I don't know you or how long you or how long you have been around here, but this doesn't fly, dancing around the actual problem doesn't solve anything... and it is visible to all.. Now back to explaining to everyone who emailed me why I misrepresented the Grimsmo scales on your knife...Vernon Stephens (address) Please send my knife back in new condition!" that's all.... all of this correspondence was on the same day.. He wrote me this morning "I sent you this earlier but here it is again. (tracking #) If I don't receive a tracking number within 24 hours I will void this label. The ball is in your court." that's it..........I did not respond to his prodding!...I said all I had to say in my last email to him! When I receive my knife back in new condition I will promptly send his knife back...With all his blunt, non communicative emails, I lost all trust in our deal and If he cut a banana with it that's all cool, I like bananas too... but what is the definition of use to him, I would like to see...and then return his knife, that I have only looked at! He received his end of the deal as agreed, I didn't....he misrepped his item, I didn't....He was very short in his emails right after I informed him the scales weren't Grimsmo... danced me around a bit at first, till he saw I wasn't going to walk away.....then he says the knife is used ... red flags everywhere!!! Why didn't he just say that in his first couple very short emails..


Tyler, Please return my Lionsteel in like new condition, I don't care if you cut a banana with it, but not all beat up, you only had it 6 hours before I told you not to use the Lionsteel, so it shouldn't be beat up! and then I will return your Para 2 with those scales! and yes I got a little hot, I don't have time to dance! Please read the forum rules thoroughly before posting something in the exchange next time... I have had your knife packaged since I found out what you sent me weren't Grimsmo... I care nothing about the Para 2, I just traded for the Grimsmo scales! and I received something else, if that's all good with everyone...than I'm missing something!

Well, that's my side...I will not be posting to this thread, if anyone has anything to say to me...you know how to contact me!
Tyler you know my email and my address!...
Everyone have a good morning, I sure did!
Vernon
Click to expand...

So why haven't you responded to the last three emails I sent? I was honest and upfront. I tried to make things work. Holding my knife hostage and belittling me is where the problem lies. We agreed to ship the knives yesterday as your post shows. I sent you a tracking number and no response from you with one. This is the first you've said you didn't care I cut a banana and carried the knife. In your post above is shows you where adamant the knife be in new condition, which its not.

As far as I'm concerned the trade is final, unless you ship the Para 2 back the same day I ship the Lionsteel.
 
I say ship the mans knife back, then once he gets his, wait for yours. Not because either of you are right or wrong, but to avoid anymore bad blood. You guys get your knives back and just don't do deals with eachother down the road. No knife is worth so much hassle between two members of such a great community here.
 
xICEMANx said:
So why haven't you responded to the last three emails I sent? I was honest and upfront. I tried to make things work. Holding my knife hostage and belittling me is where the problem lies. We agreed to ship the knives yesterday as your post shows. I sent you a tracking number and no response from you with one. This is the first you've said you didn't care I cut a banana and carried the knife. In your post above is shows you where adamant the knife be in new condition, which its not.

As far as I'm concerned the trade is final, unless you ship the Para 2 back the same day I ship the Lionsteel.
Click to expand...

someone may have already said this as i have not read the entire thread. but have you considered sending him a picture of the knife in its current condition. it seems to me that would allow him to verify the condition of his knife without you having to have your knife held hostage.
 
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