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Problems at Camillus - will they survive?

Ray Bair, THAT is the crux of the problem right there, crooked/self-interested union leadership. Like so many politicians, the true statesmen have all but disappeared. When you can be led by people who understand the issues, and work FOR their constituencies, it's worth belonging to organizations, voting for, and supporting leaders. Otherwise it deteriorates into every man for himself or powerless individuals. Everone who puts in an honest day's work deserves a wage they can live on, and some health protection. Humans being who we are, you sometimes have to force the issue, because many would rather give you less for your time. Hence the need for unions AND good leadership.
 
Joe-Dirt,

My thoughts exactly. Across the bay from me, the starting pay in the Norfolk Ford plant is almost $18.00/hr. After working there for a few years, a person can expect to make around $25.00/hr. It's great that people are able to make that much money starting off, but one has to wonder if a company can afford to support pay rates of that amount.
 
Yea, unions today are a bit of a problem. The paradigm changed and they didn't notice.

Management too. Management missed the change, also.

Wouldn't mind seeing the old Ben & Jerry pay scale model at more businesses. The owners make no more than 7 times the least wage. Sounds like a lot, but a pittance in comparison to what many make.

P.S. Don't count on that Ford plant running much longer. They're shutting down the Minnesota plant that made them trucks too.
 
orthogonal1 said:
Wouldn't mind seeing the old Ben & Jerry pay scale model at more businesses. The owners make no more than 7 times the least wage. Sounds like a lot, but a pittance in comparison to what many make.
Click to expand...

That old Ben & Jerry's pay scale doesn't even exist at Ben & Jerry's any longer.

Ray
 
Auto industry is a perfect example of Unions gone wrong. Look at how many employees they have that are still getting paid and don't even show up to work. Some program that was in place to keep them from working for foreign auto plants. So in effect Ford & GM are paying millions for employees that no longer work there.

I can see where there was a need for Unions, but at the same time I have seen several taking advantage.
 
If you do not count government employees (local, state, federal) significantly less than 5% of the workforce is unionized. (Source: Bureau of labor Statistics, 2005)

At least at gun shows, 90% of what's for sale is junk, and it's selling well. ( 2 for $7.00! Swell!!!!)
 
Living in a Coal Field area I have seen my share of Union "stuff", the one thing I will always remember is my Uncle's mine going on strike over the kind of soap that provided for them free in the showers, I think the strike lasted over 6 months, this was in the mid 80's. People wonder what happened to all the jobs, Unions over killed their usefulness, Yes without them work conditions where intolerable 50 years ago and I think the employees had every right to form unions and fight for their rights but when unions start controlling everything it gets bad.

All the employees at a mine had to pay union dues, fair, one employee was the union "boss" and made 2X what the others did to do nothing but collect and make sure they paid their dues....BS.

Unions need the smack knocked out of them now days.

Also I think we should ship Union bosses over to China to form unions for those workers, 10 years from then and the jobs will start coming back here.
 
Joe-Dirt said:
Unions have gotten way out of hand in this country. That's the real problem. I agree with what DaveH said above.

A guy that sweeps the floor at a Ford plant shouldn't be making $50,000 per year. That's just BS.

The point is that there are tons of people that would love to have that guys job and do it happily for $25,000 per year or less.

Unions used to be good but they are just too greedy these days.

If you have a skill that's great. You should be paid well for it. If you simply hold up car doors all day so a robot can screw them on you got no skill and you shouldn't make 50 G's a year.
Click to expand...

I agree!! Maybe in the beginning, unions were good, but not anymore!! They are also out there to make money for themselves! Also, people here would rather ask for more money than tighten their belts to help keep their company alive. Better less pay than none at all!!Inflation and cost of living increases for workers weighs much on companies and prices go up and less sales ! Much as I hate to say this,China products are way up their in quality now(not all, but a lot).
 
I like camillus but have never been a huge fan but i really hate to see another old-line american company fold. sure the brand will live on stamped on a knife made in china/taiwan/japan but I'd rather just let it die instead of live on in imports. from what i've seen and heard the company is going down the drain just like schrade and probably nothing is going to stop it. it's a shame that the U.S. is rapidly becoming a country that buys everything and produces nothing. later, ahgar
 
I firmly believe that Unions played an important role during the industrialization period of our history. They helped makeworking conditions safer for example but today we have employment laws and safety laws in place. We have OSHA and a boat load of lawyers that lovve to sue companies.

What I'm trying to say is that we have other worker safeguards in place today that didn't exist 50 years ago. The need for unions I feel is almost nonexistant.
 
Alright here's my two cents worth on the unions role in the alleged upcoming demise of Camillus, I've worked both sides of the table, union and management.

When I was a union rep I used to call the guys and remind them we had a meeting in the upcoming week, they would all grumble, moan and make excuses to why they couldn't be there, when the contract came up and a change was passed no one complained till it affected them, then I'd hear, during my lunch, on the can, in the parking lot before going home but never at a meeting.

I used to whip out a little pad I used for notes when confronted by a union employee during my time and I would look in it and say Joe according to my book you haven't been to the last 6 meetings, you wanna complain STFU and come to the next meeting and complain.

Through complacency they would expect us to take care of everything for them, "That's why we pay dues" was usually the response, and that mentality would send us to the table every 3 years with no input what so ever.

In the end we got screwed, I got blamed, then I went management and started lookin' after my own butt.

On the other side of the table the union got sneakier and started started putting politicians and lawyers in key positions, which only served to make the lawyers and politicians fatter.

Now I've been out of the union affected corporations for some time and when it comes to wages and such, I believe everyone should be paid based on their ability and value to the company and with that when buying product on the consumer end, you get what you pay for, so if your dollar gets more bang for your buck somewhere else you'll spend it there.

As far as Camillus goes I just hope it gets worked out to some degree and stays here in the US.
 
hey Joe-Dirt,

How much should that guy holding the door make?

How much do you make?



Unions are a must; that being said, those same unions need to rein in the
greed factor and realize the fact that money is finite and sooner or later
business owners just won't have the cash flow to pay for the high salaries
now enjoyed by some in the work force.

I am a 30 year union member and question daily some of the things my union
does or fails to do, but I am still a firm believer in a strong union helping to make a strong work force.

I am now stepping off of my soap box.

IAFF/CPF Union member and damn proud of it.
 
BobKoontz said:
....
I am a 30 year union member and question daily some of the things my union
does or fails to do, but I am still a firm believer in a strong union helping to make a strong work force.

I am now stepping off of my soap box.

IAFF/CPF Union member and damn proud of it.
Click to expand...

LOL :D

I'm glad you're damn proud of it. I just laugh when I see these goofs driving around in thier pickup trucks with a sticker on the back that says "Proud Union Laborer" or whatever. :D

LOL....
 
Would be curious to know what the union status is of workers at Case. Buck? Benchmade? Queen?

Anyone know?
 
When I was a young carpenter, I earned enough to buy a house for my family, with my union job. My daughter got braces when she needed them, my youngest got the special education he needed. The guys outside the union, got crap! My house is now worth a very comfortable retirement. Some of my old non-union acquaintances still rent. I think your laughing at people stems from ignorance Joe-Dirt!
 
in my area a tile guys gets 12-14$ and no benies for 20 years experience for non union-

$21 in the union with some benies-
lots of travel no matter who you work for-

is our union good-
no but its a dam sight better than nothing-
 
Bashing unions is popular these days, primarily because nobody knows the good unions have done for this country and the world. Without unions people died in garmet factory fires. Without unions people would work 12 hour days 7 days a week and be fired when sick. Without unions children worked in factories. Without unions medical benefits would only be available to the top 5% of population. Without unions people had to depend upon their children to support them in retirement.

Most of the things American workers expect, such as a decent wage, medical insurance, job security, vacations, retirement, safe working conditions and reasonable working hours would not exist without the union movement. Some unions are better than others, just like some companies, some people etc. If you damn unions, you are ignorant of history and the basic evil that "management" is capable of committing. Where do we find the explotation of workers in today's America? In areas that have not been touched by unions.
 
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