Problems encountered regrinding a TOPS Tracker

What you could do if you wanted a Scandi-ish grind in the draw area would be to change the angle of the traditional Scandi grind to make it shallower. So if traditional Scandi Grind is 22, 11 degrees per side, my suggestion would be to go shallower to 8 or 9 degrees per side, depending. The goal would be to bring the grind lines further up the blade and make that area of the knife a little pointier, for lack of a better word. I've used a Tracker with a true Scandi both up front and in the draw area and I did not like it. It felt a lot more like a wedge than a knife. The other thing you could do would be to flat grind the front portion to the same angle. In theory you could then make the transition between the 2 grinds have a little less of a step off than you do between the hollow grind and full convex. I've also used a knife like that but I wasn't crazy about it. Who knows though, I might just be a goofball.
 
That is exactly what I did. I moved the grind back a bit essentially making the edge shallower. Not sure of the degrees, but it is not as steep as factory. It cuts like crazy. There is enough metal there, that I possibly could go even more.
 
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Kyle, i got to handle Chance's Trackers at PWYP too. it gave me the fever to try to grind one when I got home. I also "fixed" my TOPS Tracker, but i did it with 180 grit Rhynowet paper wrapped around a file, not the grinder. My results from scratch were less than spectacular but i will tell you what i learned. I think the major difference between the TOPS grind and the Beck grind on the quarter round is this: on the Beck, the cutting edge is kept close to right angles with the grinding belt (blade blank is rotated while grinding the QR) and on the TOPS the draw knife edge is held at constant right angles to the belt and the quarter round is ground with the edge of the belt (blade blank is not rotated). Look at the "plunge" between the front section and the QR on both knives and i think this will make sense.

The tracker guys on BCUSA just LOVE the quarter round section because you can cut really fine, tight curls with your shavings. do they burn any better? i dont know, lol.

also, why the hollow grind on the draw knife portion? a hollow grind adds a degree of difficulty (at least for me) and all draw knive's i have even seen were flat chisel grinds to zero. Just curious.

randy
 
I reckon an experiment to find the exact angle would be interesting. I have a way of grinding a fairly precise angle. It might be a little bit harder for me to execute it in the draw area and the transition would almost certainly have to be completely hand done with files/dremel. I would be willing to try it this way with goal of establishing a true and slight deeper quarter round area. I would like to keep the edge convex. Perhaps ivan51 would be willing to offer his tracker up to the gods of experimentation for a project like that? I know what grinds I prefer but this might be an interesting project that I could learn from.
 
For some reason I have had good luck hollow grinding. I've also had really good luck slack belt grinding out convex grinds. It is actually more difficult for me to flat grind on a platen and get sharp grind lines.

To answer your question about the hollow grind, I've used a bunch of different grinds in that area and for whatever reason I have found the hollow grind with a convex edge to work the best. At PWYP I made a mallet and used the different tracker models and an actual draw knife to shape the handle. Maybe I am doing something different, but the results weren't even close. The hollow grind outperformed even the actual manufactured draw knife. I'd bet though that a properly executed flat grind with a fairly shallow angle and a convex edge would be almost indistinguishable from a hollow grind. Also that portion if the knife would likely baton better if it wasn't hollow ground. That was the one thing that I thought you sacrifice by going to a hollow grind, although I really don't baton except very rarely.

rwn2000 said:
Kyle, i got to handle Chance's Trackers at PWYP too. it gave me the fever to try to grind one when I got home. I also "fixed" my TOPS Tracker, but i did it with 180 grit Rhynowet paper wrapped around a file, not the grinder. My results from scratch were less than spectacular but i will tell you what i learned. I think the major difference between the TOPS grind and the Beck grind on the quarter round is this: on the Beck, the cutting edge is kept close to right angles with the grinding belt (blade blank is rotated while grinding the QR) and on the TOPS the draw knife edge is held at constant right angles to the belt and the quarter round is ground with the edge of the belt (blade blank is not rotated). Look at the "plunge" between the front section and the QR on both knives and i think this will make sense.

The tracker guys on BCUSA just LOVE the quarter round section because you can cut really fine, tight curls with your shavings. do they burn any better? i dont know, lol.

also, why the hollow grind on the draw knife portion? a hollow grind adds a degree of difficulty (at least for me) and all draw knive's i have even seen were flat chisel grinds to zero. Just curious.

randy
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averageiowaguy said:
I reckon an experiment to find the exact angle would be interesting. I have a way of grinding a fairly precise angle. It might be a little bit harder for me to execute it in the draw area and the transition would almost certainly have to be completely hand done with files/dremel. I would be willing to try it this way with goal of establishing a true and slight deeper quarter round area. I would like to keep the edge convex. Perhaps ivan51 would be willing to offer his tracker up to the gods of experimentation for a project like that? I know what grinds I prefer but this might be an interesting project that I could learn from.
Click to expand...

Lets do it! Frankenstein tracker here we come! Lol
 
Like a moth to a flame. I know it is not good for me to try to regrind someone else's knife to make it more better. As the world turns we all continue to seek the grail knife. I am powerless to resist. Curiosity gets the best of me. I am not charging ivan51 for the regrind because it is experimental. I also will not replace the knife if he is not satisfied. He is dropping the family dog off at Dr. Frankenstein's lab at the University. The dog will absolutely come back but it may return vicious. All parties accept the risk in the name of science. :)
 


here is my attempt at a tracker-style grind. I tried it on a piece of 1/8"x1-1/2" O1 to see if I could do it before ordering 3/16"x2-1/2" O1 since it isnt cheap. It isnt perfect but it does the job. It is laying on a seasoned piece of pecan; the shaving curls were made on the radius on the quarter round area.

let me know what you think.

randy
 
Heat treat was done in a propane forge, quenched in 140 degree canola oil, tempered 3 times at 425 degrees. The blackening was done with full strength etching solution from Radio Shack (ferric chloride). I tried it diluted 3:1 and it didn't get dark enough, so I wiped it on straight out of the bottle.
 
Here is another problem with regrinding someone else's blade - everything that is wrong with it is your fault. When I regrind a knife it never gets hotter than warm to the touch. If you leave your knife in a hot car it gets hotter than when I am grinding it. When it gets warm I dip it in a bucket of water until it is back to room temperature. Every blade that goes onto the production line at bark river starts as a hardened steel blank. They grind the blades out exactly that way. It is where I learned to do it. If you're careful you don't ruin the heat treat. What happens if the blade you are regrinding started out a little bit soft in the first place? Guess who gets blames for it being soft?
 
I'm interested enough in the angles experiment that I think I might just buy my own TOPS and mod it. Maybe I'll do a pass around after.
 
Looks like I may have started this whole mess. :o

When I saw the BRK Tracker variations, I looked at my Tops and had to ask about grinding it like that. I got it back and needless to say I was very happy. Went to work with it and was even happier. The original Tops grind is not user friendly, rather blunt, and not friendly at all in the draw portion. Then I made the mistake of showing it on the thread in question on that other forum. The fellow wrote me about who did it and I told him only after getting permission. This guy never thought to ask to meet me and see the work, his mistake. The knife that it starts with is not the same knife you get back, I realized this but he did not.

Agreed, the only thing I'd change with mine is a deeper quarter round, but that is being fussy as it performs very well as is for the task it is meant to perform, lots of curly shavings for fire starting. Even well seasoned live oak curled wonderfully.

Things I like:
Its sharp now, really sharp.
The quarter round (as it is, little) works better now
The convex part of the blade bites into wood like a hungry woodchuck, nice
The draw knife portion actually works! I will build a guard for the saw when using it this way, hit a knot and OUCH!

In conclusion, the Tracker has a rabidly loyal following like some other brands we all know and try to deal with on occasion. Its best to walk lightly around them and not get too deep. Enjoy your knife and dont bother with all the hype, either imagined or real. If you like said knife, and this goes for all of them, get it and enjoy it. Forget the haters and the rabid fans, neither one is fully right or wrong.
 
Dwayne, I am happy that you liked the work I did on your Tracker. The 'quarter round' aspect of the knife was completely off my radar because I haven't used that portion of the knife all that much and the Tracker by TOPS doesn't really have a quarter round anyway. I wish I'd known that the guy wanted a deeper quarter round or wanted extra attention paid to it. He said to grind it like yours so I did. My mistake. I probably should have quizzed him more about what he was looking for. I most certainly would have enjoyed the challenge. In fact, I ordered a Tracker from TOPS today to try and work out that particular problem with the knife. As it is, I still wanted to make sure that the guy wasn't damaged by anything I did so I wrote him a check for $350 which he cashed. You can buy a new Tracker for $219. He paid me $50 for the regrind plus $10 shipping. He got to keep the regrind and pocket the extra $71. When he wrote me an email saying he wasn't happy I offered all of the above without his asking. He declined but I insisted. He wouldn't give me his address so I could send him a check. The only address I had for him was on the box that the knife came in and obviously it was already shipped back and in his possession. I had to find his address on whitepages. Hopefully he is happy. I consider it water under the bridge at this point. I think I did the right thing. I'd love it if a company literally had to hunt me down to give me my money back, a new knife, let me keep the old knife and gave me $71 to boot. I consider it money well spent to have done the right thing and it was a very good lesson for me about not regrinding other people's knives.

Moving on, I like the Tracker design because it is an American design. People either love it or hate it. I can do almost everything I need to in the woods with a Swiss Army Knife so I don't need a superknife. I am not worried about how useful the Tracker is or what people do with them. I like it as a platform for experimentation. I look at the Bowie knife in much the same way. How useful is a 12 inch Bowie with meteorite Damascus, gold inlays, ivory handle and jeweled pommel? I don't know but people make and sell the hell out of them regardless of how useful they are. I look at the Tracker the same way. There is an entire generation of knife nuts who came of age and got inspired to collect knives and screw around in the woods. Just because of sheer demographics I think the design will gain more and more acceptance. I know I am having a ton of fun experimenting with grinds, modifications to the blade shape etc.
 
Man I can't wait to see how mine is going to turn out!! :D. Ya Dwayne I was a bit surprised by that forums reactions too lot of great info in it but think I'm going to stay out of if
 
I had my parting words and like you I will stay away from now on. When a group has a predisposition, well, it tends to stay that way no matter what happens. I've seen it many times in my years around the forums. Its sad, because I did like that place, but I just cant deal with the cynicism.

Other than that, the Tracker is an odd knife that I really like and will continue to have fun with no matter what anyone else thinks. I will hopefully gather a few more variations in the future, a Beck is way out of my range but who knows! :) I'll probably get another Tops and work it myself and see what happens.
 
Yep I agree tracker is a odd ball blade but watching mr.blacks vids over there made me change my mind and give it a try. Can't wait to see how the new mods come out and hope Kyle does one of his awesome vid reviews with the new mods!
 
Kyle, your approach to customers should make the entire custom knifemakers community proud!!!
It doesn't matter if one is a mastersmith or a beginner...our community is made by people with a great passion that deserves the respect you showed in this circumstance :thumbup:
 
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