ProCut, new steel, it’s a good one 👍

I am a newer maker, I have been preoccupied with tooling and a shop for several years; But, I have made 3 batches of AEBL and Magnacut blades. I have a process of plates and cryo for both. I have gotten myself a hunk of Procut and would prefer to use the plate quench sequence; 1'x1'x2"plates with blown air, cool enough to transfer to 1'x5"x2"plates, clamped, submerged in water. placed in LN2 for at least one hr....72-74HRC. I do the temper a little different on Magnacut, but, I do 200F for 2hrs, two times. I will measure 64-65. I have at least 30 blades processed,
Having only plate quenched, it seems like a bad idea to oil quench anything.
Having only worked with stainless bar, I noticed that the bar of Procut that I got has a pretty good bow in it as shipped. I have a 4'x2" bar and both ends are at least a half inch off of my table. I have been planning on tweaking it to straight before cutting out my profiles. Just an observation. Different class of steel for me and thought the plate quench should work fine. Why would it not?
 
Judcargile said:
I am a newer maker, I have been preoccupied with tooling and a shop for several years; But, I have made 3 batches of AEBL and Magnacut blades. I have a process of plates and cryo for both. I have gotten myself a hunk of Procut and would prefer to use the plate quench sequence; 1'x1'x2"plates with blown air, cool enough to transfer to 1'x5"x2"plates, clamped, submerged in water. placed in LN2 for at least one hr....72-74HRC. I do the temper a little different on Magnacut, but, I do 200F for 2hrs, two times. I will measure 64-65. I have at least 30 blades processed,
Having only plate quenched, it seems like a bad idea to oil quench anything.
Having only worked with stainless bar, I noticed that the bar of Procut that I got has a pretty good bow in it as shipped. I have a 4'x2" bar and both ends are at least a half inch off of my table. I have been planning on tweaking it to straight before cutting out my profiles. Just an observation. Different class of steel for me and thought the plate quench should work fine. Why would it not?
Click to expand...
Because ProCut an oil hardening steel and those others are air hardening.
 
Judcargile said:
I am a newer maker, I have been preoccupied with tooling and a shop for several years; But, I have made 3 batches of AEBL and Magnacut blades. I have a process of plates and cryo for both. I have gotten myself a hunk of Procut and would prefer to use the plate quench sequence; 1'x1'x2"plates with blown air, cool enough to transfer to 1'x5"x2"plates, clamped, submerged in water. placed in LN2 for at least one hr....72-74HRC. I do the temper a little different on Magnacut, but, I do 200F for 2hrs, two times. I will measure 64-65. I have at least 30 blades processed,
Having only plate quenched, it seems like a bad idea to oil quench anything.
Having only worked with stainless bar, I noticed that the bar of Procut that I got has a pretty good bow in it as shipped. I have a 4'x2" bar and both ends are at least a half inch off of my table. I have been planning on tweaking it to straight before cutting out my profiles. Just an observation. Different class of steel for me and thought the plate quench should work fine. Why would it not?
Click to expand...
Check your numbers, no steel gets to 72-74 hrc.

Hoss
 
My tester seems to match the calibration block. I know you work with AEBL quite a bit.
If we are seeing a span error on that tester, my hill just got steeper.
 
Oil hardening steels need to get below a certain temp in seconds. Air hardening steels have a minute or more to get under their critical temperature.

I heat treated what I though was AEB-L a while back and got 66-68 out of the plate quench/cryo, tempered back to 63. Then I found out it was 1095! OOPS! Super HUGE brittle grain structure, but it actually hardened in plates/foil pouch because it was so overheated. I HT'd it like it was AEBL and overcooked the steel a LOT. But AEB-L will not get that hard.

I wonder if the blades have a bow/warp to them and it's flexing and testing way harder than it is since the steel is flexing instead of the diamond penetrating?
 
I agree with Taz. Something is wrong with your test.
First, what machine are you using?

The below applies to most any test, but is specifically for a standard Rockwell tester.
The placement of the test blade on the anvil is very important. Do not hold it in your hand. It should be balanced. If needed, place a weight on the blade to keep it balanced. Don't use a magnet, as this can cause the tester to become slightly magnetic and attract metallic dust as well as possibly affecting the readings.
Blades should be demagnetized and well cleaned prior to testing.

Check calibration. Use certified test blocks that have been tested on one side only. Use blocks from a known source. Cheap blocks are cheaper for a reason. Home made test plates may not test evenly across the surface or be parallel perfectly.
A calibration test is:
1) Three tests to seat the indicator and anvil. These readings are only recorded for comparison and not part of actual testing.

2) Take three to five readings spaced at least .01" apart. You can average three tests, but the most accurate results are by discarding the highest and lowest reading of five test and average the remaining three tests. Adjust the machine to match the test. Just adding or subtracting the error from the test block number is not the best way to go. The machine when properly calibrated should read the same as the block. Repeat until properly adjusted.

3) Once calibration is done, test the blade the same way. Frequent calibration checks are a good idea. Most folks start every blade test with a check of a block in the projected hardness range. If testing an as-quenched blade, use a block in the Rc65-67 range. For testing after temper, check with a Rc 60-62 block ... etc.

4) You can't test the bevels. Even the ricasso may be iffy on a blade not precision surface ground and checked with a micrometer. Both sides of the test area need to be perfectly parallel, smooth and finished to least 220 grit. Be aware that any burr or roughness at the edge will affect the test. Slightly champher all edges that will be on the anvil. Any non-parallelism will affect the test. I doubt most blades tested in our shops are really parallel, which is why you see so many different hardness readings posted by makers using the same basic HT. Precision surface grinders are nice, but most smiths have to do the best they can with what they have, so check with a micrometer and get the surfaces as close to parallel as possible in four measuring spots. Sanding on a granite surface plate in a figure-eight motion works pretty well.

5) The anvil and indenter need to be solidly seated and locked in place. 0.000080″ in movement will result in a reading error of one point.( In theory, the thickness of a dirty fingerprint could skew the reading 10 Rockwell points.) Even dust /oil/etc. on the surface of the anvil or test object can cause an error reading. This is why you do three pre-test readings to seat them down.
The tester needs to be level and on a very solid and vibration free base. In a lab, it is often a 200# or heavier block of granite. You might get one free from a monument/gravestone place. If the tester was moved recently, it needs to be checked and recalibrated.
Indenter should be checked with a 10 power loupe. Tip must be a perfect point. Even a microscopic chip or flat will affect the readings.
Check dash pot oil level and assure all pivots and mechanisms are properly oiled and cleaned. Check inside and out.
Do every test the same way. Speed of moving levers and such all affect the readings.
Silly as it sounds, check the weights. They should total150Kg rating and be clean of dust and dirt. (they actually weigh 37.5Kg, not 150Kg)
 
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DevinT said:
ProCut out performed 52100 on the Catra testing, it almost matched ApexUltra.

Amazing, Larrin will probably post something in the next day or so.

Hoss
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wow! That's impressive how well that performs compares to 52100 on Catra! I just got my Pro Cut in I'm thinking of using a austenitizing temperature1500 300 temper for maximum wear resistance and max edge retention.
 
Looks like forging makers have a new standard in blade steel, the toughness/edge retention balance looks incredible. i'm looking forward to seeing how long it takes to replace previous forging "standards" like 80crv2 and 52100.
 
Just got two bars of it, seems like it will be a phenomenal steel for most uses, especially anything requiring a bit more toughness. Curious to see how it behaves in san mai, glad to have yet another potentially great option steel wise, we live in great times as knifemakers we are spoiled
 
MinusFortyForge said:
Looks like forging makers have a new standard in blade steel, the toughness/edge retention balance looks incredible. i'm looking forward to seeing how long it takes to replace previous forging "standards" like 80crv2 and 52100.
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I am making an identical pair; one in ProCut, the other in 52100 just for kicks n giggles to see how they compare.
 
Are there plans to have Procut available in thicker bar stock like 3/8" thick? How about round bar in sizes like 5/8", 3/4", 1"? Will Pop's let other places sell this steel also? Is their a patent on it or will others be able to make a melt of it and call it another name?
 
I tested Pro Cut against two other steels yesterday cutting on the dirty strap that I have been using for years to compare edge wear.

The straps I found in the ditch next to a road, they were obviously well used trucker straps that are fuly embedded with fine dust. Talk about abrasive cutting! With the level of dirt in the strap, steels with harder carbides always test better. As an example last time I tested a Mora carbon blade was able to only make one cut while 10v in that test had 10 cuts.

Test blades were identical pattern and geometry. Pro Cut 64.5 Rc, AEB-L 61.5 Rc, 1v 62 Rc.

In the video you can hear how much better the Pro Cut was still slicing for cuts 4 and 5 compared to the AEB-L.

I am really impressed with Pro Cut so far. What an awsome low alloy that is so easy to heat treat! Thank you Larrin!!!

 
I was looking at Larrin's latest chart on CATRA edge retention/Toughness and was very impressed by the fact that my preferred steels for years were all in the bottom of the comparison results. I used 1095, 26C3, Wolfram, V-tok2, ands super blue often. It made great kitchen knives. Besides going for a hamon or specialty high hardness blades, there would be no reason to use any of those now that ProCut is available. Tough, durable, suitably hard - what more can you ask.
It is the steel equivalent of a Victoria Secrets model who likes to hunt moose with a black powder rifle.
 
Could this be the 3V of low-alloys? Looking forward to ordering thicker bar stock for the big monosteel blades when it becomes an option. Will it be available to suppliers outside the US or is it a Pop's exclusive sort of thing?
 
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