Profile cutting tools

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Jan 5, 2014
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As sort of a follow up post to Timos' thread about his port-a-band, I wanted to make this post asking for input on what the most efficient way of cutting profiles is. Secondarily I would like to have views including economics of the method included in the views offered. I can't learn enough about plasma cutting to determine how efficient of cutting tool that is--but setting that aside for a second, I presume water jet cutting or laser cutting is pretty efficient, but very costly--I am wanting to know what tool that would be within reach of normal people from a $ perspective. Having a tool that can cut curving sections and notched areas+, would be ideal--but simply following sweeping curves and finger type semicircles would be my personal desire--getting these cut with a port-a-band is not really easily achievable, how does a metal cutting dedicated bandsaw do? I am hopeful that's it not to far in the future--or maybe now--that a tool that will handle these type cuts is available & affordable. Just FYI, my idea of being within reach would be in the price range of 2x72 belt grinders, or on the low side of them--say $1500-2000.

Any input/recommendations are appreciated.
 
i have a small portaband on a swag stand, it works ok, but in my personal experience with it i break too many blades when cutting profiles and it is a little slow for my low level of patience. i still use it for lighter work regularly. i bought a jet 8201k bandsaw (approx $1300) and i am very happy with it, have not broken a blade yet. i am using a 14 tooth per inch blade, i am going to try a 10 tooth soon, it will cut a pinch faster. this saw has adjustable speeds and can do wood as well.
 
I use an angle grinder with a cutoff disk because of my tight budget. It takes a little bit of work and depending on the disk you use for cutting you burn through some but they are a couple dollars for a 5 or 10 pack at lowes. I try to plan my cuts carefully so that I can salvage large pieces out of the bar to make into kiridashis or other small blades. Once the basic cuts are made I switch to a grinding disk and do the final shape with that. From there it's all filework and sandpaper. So if you are looking cheap and don't mind a bit of hand work I would recommend that. I have tried a metal band saw before but like you said there was still a lot of difficulty on the curves.
 
I have a portaband at home, and a very nice, heavy Do-All metal cutting bandsaw at work. There is really not a lot of difference between them when it comes to what they're capable of doing. The big machine cuts a little better, bands last longer, but the 1/2" blade width is really the limiting factor of what you can do without resorting to match-stick cutting. The other nice thing about the big machine is speed control, some have band welders, bigger cutting envelope, heavier duty blade guides cut straighter, etc, but honestly unless you are doing something else with a big saw like splitting wood blocks or the like, I don't see it being worth the space it takes up unless you have the space to spare.

I have and use frequently, two lasers at work. They are quite capable of cutting a blank to nearly finished dimension, completely finished in some cases depending on the type of knife, how it's assembled, material used, very quickly and efficiently once set up properly. For example, I could cut a Loveless style blank from say 3/16" A2, with all required holes to finished size, the outside profile to finished size with almost no heat affected zone (using nitrogen rather than oxygen) and have any tabs or notches for guards/bolsters within .005-.010" of final hand fit dimensions, in about 40 seconds of actual cut time. I've toyed with the idea of offering this as a service, however, the time sink comes from developing cut parameters for the steel being cut, receiving the steel from the customer, drawing the DXF file if not provided and even if it's provided checking it for errors/scale issues, and programming it for the steel provided. And it really sucks to be constrained by 2" wide strips of material. There are a lot of issues with narrow material like tipping on the slats of the machine, moving as the part is cut, etc. It's a far more repeatable process with a minimum sheet size of 6x36" which most people don't want to buy. I even considered stocking material but don't want that headache either. So what I'm getting at is that it's roughly a $100/hour machine, and the actual machine time is only $1 per blade, but it's a good 2 or 3 hours of preparation to get 2 or 3 designs of knife onto a single type of steel and running on the laser, whether I cut 1 of each profile or 100 of each. Sans the material expense, the bar napkin quote for 2-3 profiles, one of each from the same material, is $303. The cost for 10 of each (30 blanks) is only $330. 100 total blanks, $400. See what I'm getting at? 3 blanks is $100 each. 100 blanks are $4 each. For the cutting service. I don't know what people charge for this service who do offer it, I'm just posting the calculus I came up with regarding what I could do. Everyone's overhead and cost structure is different. Someone with a less burdened, fully depreciated machine could likely do it for less at the lower quantities than I could. Again, that's spitballing. I don't want to even attempt to deal with 100 different profiles, from different people, every one from a different material grade and thickness. But I would be happy for an opportunity to cut 25 blanks each of 4 different profiles from the same material and thickness.

Water jet I'm less familiar with. It's slower than laser, but can generally achieve a higher cut quality. For knife making purposes, the difference in cut quality is very low impact in my opinion. The chief advantage is that with no heat, there's no heat affected zone, and with no heat, the water jet is capable of making cuts the laser cannot without distorting the material to the point of melting. IE blanks can be placed closer together, webs can have tighter corners/radii. I have no idea what this costs as they're too slow for our(my work) purposes and so I've done very little research on them.
 
I find I can cut out a blank with an angle grinder faster than on my band saw, but the bandsaw puts out a lot less dust, and long term health is a factor in these decisions. I have a couple of patterns I use a lot, and am thinking about having them waterjetted. My time is better spent grinding and finishing.
 
i have a small portaband on a swag stand, it works ok, but in my personal experience with it i break too many blades when cutting profiles and it is a little slow for my low level of patience. i still use it for lighter work regularly. i bought a jet 8201k bandsaw (approx $1300) and i am very happy with it, have not broken a blade yet. i am using a 14 tooth per inch blade, i am going to try a 10 tooth soon, it will cut a pinch faster. this saw has adjustable speeds and can do wood as well.

10 TPI for cutting profiles will be a mistake. That's .100" between teeth. The rule of thumb in bandsaw cutting is 3 teeth engaged with the work. You would only engage 3 teeth simultaneously when cutting .300" or greater material. 14 TPI can work but even that is a bit coarse and will mostly have 2 teeth engaged. 20 TPI is pretty ideal.

If 14 is working for you without losing teeth, I would stick with that. A 10 TPI blade in thin steel is going to knock teeth off quickly, and once it starts on a band it propagates quickly.
 
If you dont want to use a bandsaw, Plasma is about the next step up & most useful for a small shop. My little Hypertherm cost about 1k$ 20-ish years ago. Air compressor is required with plasma. A legitimate workshop should already have...

One negative of plasma cuts is it will harden steel right at the kerf. Normally its no problem. Kerfs are usually ground away, but can damage tooling if a raw kerf is machined.
 
If you dont want to use a bandsaw, Plasma is about the next step up & most useful for a small shop. My little Hypertherm cost about 1k$ 20-ish years ago. Air compressor is required with plasma. A legitimate workshop should already have...

One negative of plasma cuts is it will harden steel right at the kerf. Normally its no problem. Kerfs are usually ground away, but can damage tooling if a raw kerf is machined.

I've been doing some window shopping lately, but just bought a lathe on clearout.
 
I use a drill press and drill alot of holes around my profile and then the saw zips through it was pretty quickly. This allows for a little twisting of the blade without binding and lets me stick pretty close to the profile without wastage... I try to maximize the use of all my steel.

Not as efficient as a mill or waterjet, but that's what my budget allows right now.
 
PLASMA is the way to go. I have a hypertherm 30XP bought it last year and it's more the paid for its self. Price was $1200-$1500 and I do not regret it at all. I normally shop for a used tool that I can get for cheep but with the plasma I ponied up and got a new one. It's small and compact, about the size of a small mailbox. Can be run off 120 or 220 and cuts up to a 1/2" of steel. Most of the stuff I cut is thin 15n20 but it works really good on 1/4" 5160. It will cut all the curves you want, you just need to grind the profile. Me personally would own a plasma befor a metal cutting bandsaw. I will be getting a metal bandsaw but it will be a horizontal metal cutting saw to cut large stock for forging. Currenting I use a abrasive chopsaw for my bar stock that is to thick for plasma, Some of my bar stock is over 3" in Diamater. I have a nice wood bandsaw that will also cut non faris metal when I need to. But seeing how I do things in my shop I don't at this time see much added value of a dedicated metal bandsaw. Not that I don't want one I just at this time can't justify the cost.
 
Thanks for the feedback folks, JT, I have a good fairly large California Tools compressor so that base is covered--Please tell me what you mean 'it will cut all the curves you want, you just need to grind the profile' My profiles are of typical styles, I have a couple of wharncliff style blades in my line, and a large Kiridashi, but I also have a couple of drop points, a few skinner types and a small bird & trout. So what I am saying is my profiles are of typical curves and straight lines, a few notches exist here and there--would I be able to cut all these with a Plasma similar to your's on stock up to say 5/16"?
 
If you can draw it you can cut it with a plasma. Also plasma cutters work really good are tracing around a template. I just free hand it though. I have templates and use a sharpy and trace out the profile. I then use the plasma and cut along the line. The finish is not super good that's why I said you need to grind the prifile. I use the plasma to remove the extra unwanted steel. I cut it a tad over size and then use the grinder to bring it down to size and clean up the profile. This is a really common blade i make and I use a plasma to rough it in. Saves so much time and belts. In the past I was just using a 50 grit blaze belt and grinding away all the not needed steel as I did not have a steel bandsaw. Then I got ahold of salems plasma and was hooked. The plasma cutter zaps through the steel like butter and then to the grinder. I use to get around 5 blades profiled with one blaze belt. That's about $2 a blade to profile. Now the plasma cutter has cut that price by a HUGE percent. The plasma uses a nozzle and an electrode that get warn away as you use them. A 2 pack that has 2 nozzles and 2 electrodes is around $20. I Finely used up my 2 back that came with it just a few months ago and I have cut a HELL of a lot of steel. I'm not sure exzactly how much but I can tell you it's tons and I mean tons as in weight. I'm guessing I have cut up around 3000-5000lbs of 15n20 plus a crap ton of knives and other odd things for $20. Plus it does not care if the steel is hard or soft. It will also pop holes in tangs of hardened blades. The trick to getting good life out of your consumables (electrode and nozzle) is a good quality plasma and DRY clean air. Water in the air is not good on the consumables. If I have time today I will shoot a short vid of me cutting out a blade blank with the plasma to show you what you can expect.

Oh and this is a really common knife I make that I was talking about above.
Photo%20Nov%2015%2C%2015%2051%2056.jpg
 
FWIW, you can cut most knife making related profiles on a porta-band, you just have to get creative. A 1/2" blade can't cut a very tight radii, but if you cut a series of "relief cuts" you can get into much tighter corners and such. You may not stay right up against your line, but you can still remove enough material to make cleanup on the grinder much quicker and easier.
For certain profiles and radii, I sometimes will pre-drill or even use an end mill or a hole saw to remove material. It really just depends on what your cutting, and what kind of material and real estate you have to work with.


Is it as efficient as a plasma cutter? No. But if you don't have $1500+ to spend, it's an option.
 
I have the same plasma cutter as JT. I don't use it because I don't have any templates made to trace and when I cut freehand with the plasma you'd think I hired a mildly perturbed beaver with poor depth perception to chew them out for me.
 
I have a water jet business close enough to make it worthwhile. I make a pattern, they cut the steel. Works for me & saves a lot of time & effort. I have 4 different patterns they cut with, so I just drop off the steel & pick up the blanks when they're finished.
 
I use a drill press and drill alot of holes around my profile and then the saw zips through it was pretty quickly. This allows for a little twisting of the blade without binding and lets me stick pretty close to the profile without wastage... I try to maximize the use of all my steel.

Not as efficient as a mill or waterjet, but that's what my budget allows right now.

Small Makita 4-Inch angle grinder cost around 50 $ on Amazon ,one thin /1mm/ disc for cutting costs half dollar and will cut many blank .... at least 20 if you don t break :)
 
I have the same plasma cutter as JT. I don't use it because I don't have any templates made to trace and when I cut freehand with the plasma you'd think I hired a mildly perturbed beaver with poor depth perception to chew them out for me.

That's funny right there, made my day.
I have thought about building a pentagraph that holds the torch and I can trace the template with a little probe. Would make cutting much smoother to trace templates.
 
Small Makita 4-Inch angle grinder cost around 50 $ on Amazon ,one thin /1mm/ disc for cutting costs half dollar and will cut many blank .... at least 20 if you don t break :)

Thanks. I actually have an angle grinder as well but I've come to prefer the drill and bandsaw method. I'm not sure why.
 
Heck JT, you've got me mostly sold on a plasma cutter--I watched several videos on YouTube earlier, and it looks pretty understandable to me--not really sure of how to make sure my compressor air is really dry--need to study up on that a bit--I have thought about getting some of my patterns water jetted but I make a lot of one offs, and I like being able to efficiently profile my blades myself.

Look forward to any more input.
 
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