Proper Behavior for Knife Shows - How to keep from looking like an idiot

This is a fantastic thread. One of the best I've enjoyed lately. There are some great suggestions on here and I would like to add a few of mine. Hopefully they will help people on both sides of the table.

There is no shame in getting cut. It happens. If a maker offers you a band aid, don't be too proud to take it. He is trying to help you enjoy the show and also trying to keep blood off the tables. Along these lines remember that many of these knives are sharper than you can imagine. If you do pick one up, be aware of the people around you and don't move it around in a manner that might injure someone else. If it is a big knife or sword, you can see plenty even if you leave the point in contact with the table. Bad to get cut, worse to cut someone else.

Leave the Martial arts maneuvers, and wild knife maneuvers outside and not in the isles of the show. I've seen this clear an isle on more than one occasion and none of the makers appreciate that, at all. I realize that most of the people reading this know how to act but along these same lines, don't get stuck in the "knife show shuffle" where you walk along just looking at tables. Be aware of your surroundings and watch out for other people. You never know when someone else is going to do something stupid with a large sharp knife and you don't want to be there.

From the isle, if I see a maker reading a book or taking a snooze, I don't bother him. I don't care how good his knives look. On the other hand if he is eating, I'll usually wait until he has taken a big bite and then ask him a question.:) Harry and I have an advantage in that we can swap out and move around the show to work out the kinks or get a bite to eat. A single maker is at a disadvantage when he needs to take a break or get a bite to eat. Don't judge a maker to harshly if he is taking a break, even if it is behind his table. Some of these shows get long.

If you just want to talk to makers, a good time is late Saturday afternoon or Sunday afternoon. These times are sometimes slack and many makers are able to spend some quality time with the customers. Not a bad time to make a purchase either.

One thing I've learned is never judge a customer's knowledge or ability to pay by his looks. This applies everywhere but especially in knife shows.

And last, if you want to see a particular maker and he has left the show early, there may be a good reason. I have had a wife with a medical emergency and a Mother that fell and broke ribs that made me leave the last two Blade Shows. Sometimes bad things happen. Along these same lines, makers need to be at the show for the times they signed up for. Leaving early for your convenience hurts everyone. It would also be nice if some collectors came on Sunday. Remember, this is a two way street.

We are looking forward to the Blade Show. Table 11I.
 
Some of the people in this discussion (especially toward the beginning) seem to preemptively assume the worst, approach a potential conversation from a place of distrust and antagonism, and construe every signal negatively.

I remember when I met Ed Fowler at Blade West, I think in 2003, or perhaps 2002. His eyes absolutely lit up. Such a warm, generous smile. Enthusiastic, firm handshake. I was just a total stranger, probably one of hundreds he'd met that day, but he seemed both genuinely warm, and excited about sharing his work and his industry. A real gentleman.

Speaking as a business owner in a different (i.e., non-knife-related) field, I think some of you would do well to learn to develop an attitude like Ed had when he met me, if you're going to have customer relations be part of your businesses. If you like and care about your customers, give them the benefit of the doubt about their hearts and their intentions, and have a little sympathy about them having less insider expertise about the ways of your business and industry than you do, it will probably increase your happiness and your success. Try to bring people in, not push them away.
 
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"It would also be nice if some collectors came on Sunday. Remember, this is a two way street".

Hi Charlie - I like what you say but what I would add is....that it would be nice if ALL makers had something to sell on a Sunday instead of selling everything on the first day of the show! There is a very good reason why so many buyers "bust a gut" to try and get to the opening day (hour !!).

Colin.
 
If collectors/buyers don't want to show up on the final day
and makers don't want to stay, perhaps this is a good
indicator that the show is a day too long. :confused:
 
Evolute said:
Some of the people in this discussion (especially toward the beginning) seem to preemptively assume the worst, approach a potential conversation from a place of distrust and antagonism, and construe every signal negatively.

I remember when I met Ed Fowler at Blade West, I think in 2003, or perhaps 2002. His eyes absolutely lit up. Such a warm, generous smile. Enthusiastic, firm handshake. I was just a total stranger, probably one of hundreds he'd met that day, but he seemed both genuinely warm, and excited about sharing his work and his industry. A real gentleman.

Speaking as a business owner in a different (i.e., non-knife-related) field, I think some of you would do well to learn to develop an attitude like Ed had when he met me, if you're going to have customer relations be part of your businesses. If you like and care about your customers, give them the benefit of the doubt about their hearts and their intentions, and have a little sympathy about them having less insider expertise about the ways of your business and industry than you do, it will probably increase your happiness and your success. Try to bring people in, not push them away.
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This is well stated sir.
 
Great thread, thank you everyone. Having a better understanding of the rules will certainly make upcoming knife shows more enjoyable and stress-free.

I have to say though, the whole customer with a rag/chamois thing would terrify me if I were a knife maker. I used to be an auto detailer for way too many years and feel that the wiping is best left to the owner of the blade that is positive of the condition of his/her own rag or chamois.
 
Thank you Evolude: I do my best, my back and new hip may or may not let me stand all day, but I do my best. When you pass my table you will see a sign "Please Touch" I mean it, I love it when folks do me the honor to handle my knives and get to know what they are all about. I am more than willing to answer questions like why and what for.

I worry sometimes when they wipe my knives down after handling them, I realize they mean it as a sign of respect and it does not aggravate me, but I usually wipe them down myself when I have time.

Shows for me are shows, I try to bring more knives that I can sell at any particular show in order that the last person has the opportunity to visit with one of my ladies. I dearly love visiting with members of our knife community.

I leave my table more than I should, mostly because I want to visit old friends that I may never get another chance to talk to again. Sometimes I just go to the booth they used to have and let
my memory recall the good times we shared. Too many of my old friends are gone.

If I am not there, my "Please Touch" sign will be, visitors are welcome to run their hands over blades, handles, engraving, at their choice.

I do discourage folks from placing or removing a knife from a sheath or putting it back as and they are individually paired to match as closely as I can make them and the sheath laying near a knife may not fit the knife they have in their hands. Ask and I will provide the sheath for that knife and show you how to make them work together.

Any question is welcome as are any photos you may want to take.

As for haggling, I remember an early NY knife show where a client kept trying to make me lower my price on a knife he really liked, finally on Sunday afternoon he came to my table and his knife was still there. He asked me "How much today?" I was in a good mood and decided to lay the burden of the price on him. I told him just pay me what you think it is worth, he handed me a wad of bills and left with the knife with a big smile on his face. I just stuck the bills in my pocket without counting. Later I found he had paid me much more than the price I had on the knife. I have always wondered about this event.
 
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I am a sometimes collector and can speak only from this perspective. My two biggest gripes about knife shows have already been mentioned. They are makers that do not put prices on their knives and makers who can only show me pictures of knives they have made in the past. I will rarely buy from the former and will not buy from the latter.

As a show visitor, I don't have the luxury of choice of standing vs sitting. I have to walk to a maker's table and have reached an age and physical status where I am very sympathetic of those that find standing for a period of time a challenge. I no longer am willing to wait patiently to ask the price of a knife while the maker talks with another prospective customer. Maybe I will come back when the maker is less occupied, but don't count on it! I don't understand a maker's reluctance of put prices on his/her knives (is it that much bother to put prices with the 10 knives that a maker may have on his/her table)?

I usually try to get to any show I attend early. It is very disappointing to visit any maker's table that has no examples of the maker's work. Pictures of previous work are not a worthy substitute. I can appreciate a maker selling out early, but that should be anticipated by the maker after a few shows and he/she should plan accordingly.

Makers that leave early from shows have been mentioned here and elsewhere. While much has been made about the need for show visitors to make knife shows successful, those behind the table bear an equal responsibility and if both visitors and table holders demonstrate proper etiquette all should have pleasant experiences.

Paul
 
If I may, some philosophical commentary from this buyer's perspective.

on a couple of occasions many years ago the Navy sent me to the Far East where I discovered that haggling was the #1 contact sport. Rather than a contest to get "best price" the culture itself seemed to revolve around the haggle. Everything was haggled for. Certainly price was an issue, but it wasn't completely focused on it.

tossing out an insulting low bid was not bad manners, nor was rudely asking, "what's your lowest price?" Rather, these were simply methods to get things going, to get the conversation started with a total stranger.

personally, I find it very intimidating at any sort of show, to walk up to the seller and try and get a conversation going. Very difficult. It is the wise seller who starts the conversation to break the ice.
developing conversational rapport very quickly is most definitely not my strong point, and I've walked away from lots of tables because I could never get a comfortable feeling. My loss for sure, and the seller's perhaps.

And I'll bet many sellers struggle with the same "problem." But if the seller immediately turns adversarial because some guy blurts out something "offensive" in a brave attempt just to get a conversation going, oops to the seller.

And I gotta laugh, because I'm making it sound like the seller has to be part therapist ..... and that's true. Salesmanship is all about "selling" your product and "closing" the deal. Lucky the seller who has a long line of buyers willing to pay sticker price.

So, some folks will haggle just for the sport of it and don't really care about the price. Others like me need a helping hand to build some conversational rapport. Others are Christmas shopping, patiently saving the cash for the future purchase. And others are just awe-struck by all of it and want only to learn something about the product.

That puts the seller in a real bind: who is this person on the other side of the table ?? Do I really want him to have my product ?? And if I encourage him in any way, what will that do to my reputation right now ?? What if I should discourage him in any way, what will that do to my reputation in the future ??


Cheers,

NPH
 
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I've never had a problem with putting a price on knives. At Wal-Mart they sell little stickers just for putting on items for sale. Just not hard to do. (If you want to know why makers don't put the price on their knives, wear a Rolex watch and an alligator belt to a knife show and see what kind of prices you get quoted. :D)

We have had people ask the price with the knife in their hand while looking at the sticker.....Same thing with steel type. It is marked on our knife, but people still ask. Doesn't bother us a bit and is a good way to open a conversation with the maker.

Having knives at a show is a whole different animal though and I would recommend that those that haven't done it give it a try. It is hard holding knives that you can sell now for a show that is coming in two or three months and the knife might not sell then. How many knives can you make in addition to the custom orders that you are taking and how long do you want to push your delivery time back so that you can make knives to take to shows? Customers don't understand when you tell them it will be a year and a half to have their knife ready, that we don't start making it right then and work on just their knife for a year and a half. They certainly don't understand that we have to make knives to take to shows, that aren't sold, and that anyone can walk up to the table and buy it without having to wait the same amount of time to get their knife. Having said that, our goal is to have enough knives to bring some home. That is the only way we can be sure that we have knives on the table at the end of the show and we will be there until the last bell rings. If we happened to sell out the first day, we will still be there with our portfolio and still talking knives until the last bell rings.

Shows, to us, are a chance to put our knives out for a large number of interested people to see and put their hands on. They can see the style of knife we make and the level of quality that we put into them. The people can talk with us and get to know us a little if they want to. All this gives them the comfort level it takes to place an order at a later time and maybe buy a knife off the table too. You can't get this level of advertising and give this level of familiarity with a product from an ad in a magazine.

To Harry and I, a portfolio of past knives gives us the chance to show knives that have been made in the past and now exist in someone’s collection, possibly never to be seen again. Many of these knives were made for a custom order and we don't want to hold on to it for an extra few months so that we can take it to a show. It would have to be marked sold, and the customer has already waited long enough to get it. In almost nine years of knife making we have had only two of our carved handle knives available to display at a show. One of those was because a great customer insisted that we keep it till after we had shown it at the Little Rock Show.

We work hard to have a good time at shows and show people what we can do. We like all makers spend a lot of time in a work shop cooped up with a lot of steel and dust. A show is a chance to get out, meet and talk with people about the knives we love to make. I look forward to every one and the worst one I ever went to was great!

Sorry for the long post! I'm waiting for some glue to dry on an integral.:cool:
 
With only one exception (The Blade Show) there is no other knife show in the US that should be 3 days....NONE.

Why are they 3 days? Because the Hotels or Show facility throw in Sunday for free or almost free. As they know there is no one coming on on Sunday to rent it.

So the promoter only has to pay for insurance and security for the 3rd day. So from their perspective it makes sense to have it for 3 days.

That is not to say that there are not reasons to stay on Sunday. But for most of us that do...this is about a day of catching up with friends and comparing notes about the show...than actual sales.

It has been a long time since someone has asked me on a Sunday "How was your show" hoping to get a better price on a knife....as they now understand that every knife on the table is on my website. More often than not I will sell more off of the website than at the show during the same time frame.

Harry hit the number on the head!

(If you want to know why makers don't put the price on their knives, wear a Rolex watch and an alligator belt to a knife show and see what kind of prices you get quoted. )
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This goes for dealers as well!

Perhaps this is why people feel they get a better deal on Sunday. As these makers and dealers have one price on Friday and another on Sunday?

Hey Pig Hunter:

personally, I find it very intimidating at any sort of show, to walk up to the seller and try and get a conversation going. Very difficult. It is the wise seller who starts the conversation to break the ice. developing conversational rapport very quickly is most definitely not my strong point, and I've walked away from lots of tables because I could never get a comfortable feeling. My loss for sure, and the seller's perhaps.
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A sure Ice Breaker is: I like this knife...what can you tell me about it?

Most makers and dealers long ago realized that part of being behind the table is "EDUCATION". So ask your questions (just don't ask me..."Did you make all these?" LOL

Hi John,

Makers have been selling out before shows opened for at least the last 27 years that I have been attending shows. I wouldn't expect that to change.

But given digital cameras Im sure if you wanted to buy one of the knives ahead of time the maker would be happy to send you a photo before the show and deliver the knife at the show.

When you are a table holder...the quicker you can cover your show expenses (for those who actually do) the more fun the show is.

People want makers to have knives on their tables when shows open. They have 3 and sell out in 5 minutes.

Then people complain...it wasn't fair they didn't get a chance to see the knives.

The makers have a drawing....it wasn't fair...I didn't win or worse when you see on dealer pointing to knives on the makers table so the winner can pick it up and then they write a check to the maker. Boys and Girls...that is all on the maker.

The makers have drawings on two days (as it wasn't fair to just have a drawing on one day...because people couldn't get there on Friday). So they have a drawing on Friday and Saturday. Again people complain...because there is no drawing on Sunday.

For the most part someone somewhere is going to say it is "unfair". For many of the drawings the good news is that most of those knives will be for re-sale. As the majority of those people standing there waiting for their name to be called....are only there to get the knife and resell it. You know to help defer the "Costs" of the show.

So do your homework and know what the knives from your favorite maker sell for. You never know you could run into a fellow collector in the room who is looking to sell a knife you want to fund another purchase. :D
 
If you are a collector, I would recommend not setting up shop at a maker's table with coffee and glazed doughnuts--- then whenever a customer comes by and says something like, "Nice hunter," you don't say, "You want to see a hunter? Well look at this one from my collection!!!" at which point you pull out a dozen knives and set them up on the maker's table. ;) :foot: :D

Seriously though.... :)
 
I'm wondering, is it considered rude to use a loupe or magnification when viewing a knife at a show or any other time for that matter. Is magnification used in judging?
 
I recall more than one instance - this pertains almost exclusively to Blade - where I've seen a few makers standing in the aisles, and could hear them badmouthing other makers. Not discussing a makers' poor quality - but badmouthing the person.

Very poor form, and to be stupid enough to be caught at it, duh. Doesn't make too good an impression for the industry, either.

Bob

EDIT: Not implying that this sort of thing happens only at Blade, it's just the only place I've noticed it to any degree - probably because of number of attendees.
 
Les, here is another complaint about drawings I've heard. People don't spend any money until after the drawing, they wait to see if they are drawn for a particular knife before they will buy from a maker that doesn't do drawings. Guys that don't do drawings have to wait around until the drawings are over and it's even worse if a maker does a drawing on Friday and Saturday.
 
As my stepson was growing up (he's 24 now), he learned what to look for in a fine knife. At his first show he picked up blades, held them up closely to his eye, REALLY scrutinized them. I'm sure he wanted to display his knife savy but I told him that it might be construed as rude. Always ask before picking up a knife. Don't inspect it like you're judging a competition. No magnifiers. You can hold the knife in your hand while inspecting it and holding a pleasant conversation with the maker simultaneously. Don't overtly look for flaws. Look for good things. The flaws will display themselves.

I stand at my table as long as my soon-to-be bionic knees will allow. And I greet every single passer-by. "How are you today?" "Good Morning!" When a person replies with, "Fine! How are you?" I reply, "I'm great! I'm at a Knife Show!" Their face lights up and they will instantly turn and come over to the table.

When they ask, "How did you get all of those little lines into the blade?" Reply? "Well.....you take two different kinds of steel and you stack them up alternately like a deck of cards...one-two, one-two, one-two..." At the end of two days, if the makers at the tables around me didn't know how to make damascus, they do now!

I'm a talker but not a barker. I try to engage as many potential customers as I can without coming on strong. Just friendly. And if a person asks permission to pick a knife up off the table, I reply." Please, and thank you for asking!"

Kids? I watch 'em like a hawk. Every situation is different but I pay outward attention to them. I make them feel welcome. Encourage them to ask questions and inquire which ones they like best (The BIG one. Ha ha). I ask them if they have any money and they hold up five fingers. "This much." Alianate the child and you'll not be selling Dad a knife!

And I've had many knives clunked down on top of others by rude people. Only once have I said anything....aloud. A rude, know it all, piss ant of a teen-ager did that very thing while laughing and showing off for his friends. I called him out in front of his buddies and parents, explaining that he needed to learn a little respect, and that that knife cost more than HIM.

I love this thread!

Cheers,

TV


Terry Vandeventer
ABS MS
 
Terry,
What a good post. One of my favorites so far.... I look forward to meeting you at the show.

Rick
 
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