I havnt been around here that long and I'd like to know the proper way to return a damaged item from the exchange and when the refund should be issued. Also when is it appropriate to file a paypal case when the seller is being deceiving? Thanx.
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Proper refund and return procedure
- Thread starter Sosa
- Start date
Generally speaking, seller and buyer need to agree on the issue. These are private party sales with no guarantees. "damaged" is a word with specific meaning. Not like getting something that was 'not as described.'
I've been through the PayPal dispute process and you need to go to their help pages and read them THOROUGHLY.
I've been through the PayPal dispute process and you need to go to their help pages and read them THOROUGHLY.
I would contact the seller and try to work things out before opening a PayPal case, even though when a Paypal case is opened the first thing they do is notify the seller and give them the opportunity to work it out before they intervene and make a decision. Generally if a buyer is not satisfied with the item received PayPal will force a refund after the item has been returned to the seller.
Ok...but that can be a subjective issue. I've refunded purchases here for no other reason than "It was not what I expected" or "the pull is way to hard." Not everyone will refund. Also, keep in mind that when you send the knife back and the refund is issued it's not immediate. The refund through PayPal can take 1-3 days or more as they say in the refund information.
What ever the case, it's best to work it out and not go to PayPal for a resolution. Takes more time than you'll imagine and and depending on the sellers PayPal history and status they may freeze that account in the process till it is resolved.
...Mike
The procedure should be you get a refund when the buyer works out the differences with the seller and the seller receives the item back. At that point the refund should be issued. Keep in mind, there are a lot of variables unaccounted for here, this is a best case scenario I'm describing. You should open a Paypal case when your legitimate efforts to resolve the matter have failed in every way. That means your emails get ignored, your communications deteriorate to insult matches, or when you can prove that you are getting ripped off. These things are not like returning things to Amazon, they are private sales between states and even countries at times. The topics of legality of the item come into play as well. It's the buyers responsibility to make sure that they do research BEFORE buying items from strangers. It's also the sellers responsibility to make sure they are not selling to a minor, or selling an item that is obviously illegal in a certain country or area/ No one but the parties involved is going to do that legwork.
The issues of items not as described is also tough. If an item is listed as New and it clearly isn't you need to document what you received with pictures of the damaged areas. You should also be asking for pictures BEFORE buying anything. Buying anything sight unseen is as foolish a thing as can be done. A small ding in a knife might not be anything to one guy, but it can literally be the absolute end of the world to the other.
I continue to be surprised every day at the number of listings that barely say anything about a knife's condition. Situations like these can be easily avoided. It just creates headaches for everyone and erodes our collective trust in one another. I understand the temptation to try to squeeze every last dollar from your sale but the few additional bucks you might make by hiding some aspect of condition and praying that it doesn't come up isn't worth it at all.
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As others have stated, variables and details matter. All parties should work out the details before initiating the return. I would recommend following PayPal's recommended time-line and procedures considering they were the facilitation/transfer service, which are:
You as a buyer can request a return for whatever reason. If you do that, the seller must oblige. You as a buyer must return the item in the same condition as you bought it. After the seller receives it they must refund.
That's it, that's the extreme basic version.
You as a buyer can request a return for whatever reason. If you do that, the seller must oblige. You as a buyer must return the item in the same condition as you bought it. After the seller receives it they must refund.
That's it, that's the extreme basic version.
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I think his point was that (less experienced?) potential buyers go into these situations regardless if they feel "protected" or not. I think his point was, why are people taking a risk buying something from someone when the pictures are unacceptably blurry and unclear? Topped off with meager and subjective descriptions, rather than as-to-the-point-as-possible objective descriptions (though its hard to be objective without some subjectivity). Clearly that sends a signal in itself. I think his point was, yea you're "protected" per-say, but why bother moving when such a screaming signal is there in front of your face? No one should really have to be that obvious, should they?
I do know PayPal would rather users try harder to not enter into sketchy situations to begin with. The do spell that out in their best practices recommendations.
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Yes, I know his point. He has written a lot on the subject. It has nothing to do with the question the OP asked. He is interjecting his own complaints into a simple Q&A thread.
As long as the OP used paypal goods there is a set way of dealing with this situation. Try to work it out with the seller first and if you can't, get paypal involved. If you use paypal goods there is very little risk for the buyer.
As long as people aren't upfront and detailed, it will keep happening. See: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1289396-Marko3-sold-damaged-custom-halov-to-me!!!!!!!!
Paypal won't do anything about automatic knives. Goods or not.
"This knife feels like no other and is just a hard hitting piece."
Is that level of detail acceptable in a sales post? Regardless of whether a potential buyer is "protected" or not?
I'm not sure why you feel the need to comment the way you do on nearly every post I make that you have a problem with. I certainly don't do the same to you.
As for it not being relevant to the OP.. why endure a problem if you can prevent it in the first place.
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I am a big fan of that series of posts that went up and where contributed largely to by you as well as others....
Description (as much as possible) is CRITICAL.
So many issues that never had to happen can be avoided.
I agree with Craytab that PP does an excellent job of over protecting a buyer.
That protection should be for cheats and liars, and not for someone who purchased a knife from a seller who posted one picture, the price and nothing more...
The buyer needs to take some responsibility in this equation, but they have PP so they don't have to.
As a seller, when you paint an honest picture of a knife, you are not only weeding out buyers who expect 'perfection' that rarely exists, you are also being 100% upfront and honest.
BTW, that Custom Halo thread is a really bad example. Almost impossible to figure out what happened there based on the OP's claims and actions...
If people followed the endless suggestions offered by dozens of people here, none of these things would happen. Or they would happen much less often (if there is such a thing). People are far too impatient and jump into things blindly, and when they either get bitten or they don't understand the way things work they get all angry and throw a hissy fit. We've had a few of those lately. At the top of this very forum, there are sticky threads, they contain years worth of experience from dozens of members collectively adding up to decades. What good is it when it gets ignored?
If the guy that posted the Halo thread posted facts and stopped to read for 2 seconds his thread would be open still. Hit and run threads are not welcome. If you want to out someone, you better have the time and guts to stick around and defend your position, have the guts to communicate with the person who wronged you FIRST, then you can come here and provide details, facts, and information in a easy to follow way.
If the guy that posted the Halo thread posted facts and stopped to read for 2 seconds his thread would be open still. Hit and run threads are not welcome. If you want to out someone, you better have the time and guts to stick around and defend your position, have the guts to communicate with the person who wronged you FIRST, then you can come here and provide details, facts, and information in a easy to follow way.
And unless bladeforums enforces some sort of standard people will still be able to post their for sales thread however they want.
And nor should they. They don't want to get into the role of policing local and federal law just the same as bladeforums doesn't want to be in the business of enforcing paypals policies.
That would be up to the buyer. If it isn't, don't buy it. Simple.
Really?
That fact is that unless bladeforums forces a set way to in detail describe an item, the onus comes down to the buyer. If you don't like the description or pictures you can do 1 of 3 things: 1) Move along. Don't buy the item. No one is forcing you to buy the item. 2) Ask questions and/or for more pictures. If you are still not satisfied ask more questions or move along. This is a risk since the seller could potentially sell the item to someone else. 3) Buy the item with the description/pictures as is. This, of course, is a risk and not recommended. Be a big boy and don't cry foul when you knew you were taking a risk. If need be try to work it out with the seller or get paypal involved because you were at least smart enough to use paypal the right way.
Just like when you buy any used item (yes, these are all used, unless it is from the factory or a dealer it is used, NIB means jack squat) you are taking a risk. There are ways to mitigate that risk, the best being to not buy a poorly described item. Should people do their best to describe their knife? Hell yes. Is every one going to do their best to describe their knife? No way in hell. The buyer needs to take responsibility for protecting him or her self.
Cray, you are both right.
If I put on my seller hat, I want to make sure I describe every aspect of the knife I am selling with as much detail as possible.
I want to load my sales thread with tons of pics (good ones) that show every inch of the knife.
It's to try to avoid the BS that comes with expectations not met...
As a buyer, I want the above. However, if it's not the best description and is missing detail in words and/or pics, it's my responsibility to ask those important questions before I buy.
If I put on my seller hat, I want to make sure I describe every aspect of the knife I am selling with as much detail as possible.
I want to load my sales thread with tons of pics (good ones) that show every inch of the knife.
It's to try to avoid the BS that comes with expectations not met...
As a buyer, I want the above. However, if it's not the best description and is missing detail in words and/or pics, it's my responsibility to ask those important questions before I buy.
No we aren't. He wants an unattainable fantasy. It won't happen.
And this right here is my point exactly. If a buyer doesn't like something about the sale, don't buy. Simple. Or ask questions or ask for more pics.
If the description was poor and you still bought, you need to be informed enough to know you took a risk. Now you will need to work it out with the seller or paypal. That is how it works and I don't see bladeforums forcing people to describe or picture their items in a certain way. Nor will there be a third party involved to inspect items as this would be the only way to get this unattainable fantasy. And you know problems would still arise even then. There is no perfect solution. If people are so worried about this stuff then they should be buying new from a dealer.
Bladeforums provides us a wonderful place to buy and sell and that is about it, short of infractions and banning people. If someone doesn't like that, there is no real need to constantly complain about it. There are other places to buy and sell, though I think this is one of the best because of the freedom we have and the way our community polices and protects itself.
I agree you with you 100% man.
In an idea world every seller would do their due diligence to put up a great (detailed) listing and every buyer would ask all the right questions.
PP would be reserved for cheats/liars not 'there is a fine 1mm scratch on the scale you never told me about, and I never asked'......
There is no rule here about how to list a knife as far as requirements for description go, and there shouldn't be one.
It's up to everyone to sell and buy right.
In an idea world every seller would do their due diligence to put up a great (detailed) listing and every buyer would ask all the right questions.
PP would be reserved for cheats/liars not 'there is a fine 1mm scratch on the scale you never told me about, and I never asked'......
There is no rule here about how to list a knife as far as requirements for description go, and there shouldn't be one.
It's up to everyone to sell and buy right.
Again yet another situation where NONE of us can possibly have all the details. And those details are needed to make an informed opinion one way or another. The only thing of value to point out in that thread is you dont start taking things apart at the first sign of trouble. You return it and get a refund. And you do it in a timely manner. Either way man when a thread gets shut down, it is done for a reason. And I personally dont agree with finding reasons to interject one thread into another as to be able to say your piece. If you arent in a thread when it gets closed I simply feel you missed an opportunity and we shouldnt try and draw parallels between unrelated topics because we missed that chance.