Protecting Knife Intellectual Property

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Greetings fellow knifemakers! As someone newer to the game, I’m super curious about this.

I draw all of my designs freehand and blind (I don’t copy, trace, or use pictures for reference), but I’ll be open in admitting that I take inspiration from other makers, manufacturers and artists.

I drew up a design recently and was notified by another maker that it looks very close to an existing model of another maker.

I checked it out and it does look very very close. I follow this other maker, and wouldn’t want to infringe or be accused of trying to copy a design.

I guess my question is, is anything really “original” anymore? If there’s no intent to copy, is it copying? I want to make sure I go about this the right way and don’t offend or overstep here. Thanks for your thoughts!
 
I think the reality of knives is that there are very, very few 100% original knife designs made today.

I think it's perfectly acceptable for two makers to produce similar knives. Chances are there are 100 makers working on a similar knife lol.

So what if your knife is similar to a 'model' another maker has? Is that 100% his knife design? I highly doubt it.
 
I guess my question is, is anything really “original” anymore? If there’s no intent to copy, is it copying?
I'll bite here...my answer to your first question is, maybe, but probably not. Especially when talking about knives, which have been around probably as long as primates have been using tools.
To your second question, my answer is that only you will really know if it's a copy. Everyone else you'll have to convince somehow, if that's a concern. Possibly the best way to mitigate this is to make some sort of statement pointing out that you took inspiration from a specific style/maker. The easiest (least effort) way is to do nothing (because you know you have nothing to explain), and then respond if someone makes a false accusation in the future, which may never happen.

Lastly, my take/opinion on copyright law is that these are written,followed, and upheld by people whose primary concern in life is maximizing their own personal monetary wealth with no regard to how it affects others and held up by lawyers and judges who are also primarily concerned with their own personal gain and status. And unless you are actively targeting and trying to take some of that $ away from the original artist, don't worry about it. Just be careful in calling any knife design "Original, by you".
 
A couple thoughts from my limited point of view.

It seems to me that it is tough to make a knife profile that hasn't been done before by someone. But the high end makers can often make the knife "their own" by using unique things like patterns, handle material, integrated techniques etc. In general though, if I make a regular hunter, or a bird and trout, or a kitchen knife with scales it is going to be really difficult to pull it off in a unique way that isn't similar to other knives out there.

In your case a knife you made is similar to a "an existing model" of another maker. Helle makes a Temagami model (which is what got me into knife making....I wanted one but $200 was more than I wanted to spend...so I have spent thousands learning to make my own!) and over the years now I have seen a number of custom knives that are quite similar in profile and design. I don't bat an eye at that. These custom makers have made a knife that looks similar, but is different steel, probably better fit and finish, and a one time knife. I doubt they looked at a Temagami before making their knife. The only way I would raise an eyebrow is if a maker decided to create their own model ....lets call it the Semagami .... and went into production with many of them too.
 
Thank you all for your thoughts! So it sounds like I’m probably overthinking this. I was kind of caught off guard with the callout, but it seems like as long as I’m not intentionally trying to copy someone’s designs, and also not trying to infringe on potential profits, I’m good.

As someone who produces 1-2 knives per month, I’m not exactly trying to take over the market here. Just didn’t want to find myself in the knifemakers penalty box, or be accused of something I had no intention of doing.

Any additional thoughts welcome!
 
Knife Intellectual Property..............:D
Shall we all pay for using this 2300 year old design ?
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Personally i don t give . . . . what other think of design I use .What i will call shameless copying is if someone buy a knife from other maker and make exact copy of that knife ...........
I find a design i like i make similar knife. Even better if it is a drawing in its original dimensions. If you do not want to be copied, do not put the original drawings on the net. END !!
 
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Yeah - I think you are overthinking this. two things to think about - legal and reputation. ON the legal side, any action would follow the money. If there is not really much money involved, then any legal action would cost far, far more than any kind of award - and so not likely to happen in this case. Reputation - it would be one thing if you were intentionally trying to make a duplicate of another makers knife - in which case people would likely find out about it and your reputation would tank. But that is just not likely to occur if you are just doing your own thing. If you wanted to be sure .... if you get a comment from someone (like you did), then you could reach out to the maker in question and say something like "I was just making my own design .... and someone pointed out it ended up looking a lot like your design .... are you ok with this?" . My guess is the maker in question would say "go for it!"
 
Not at all worried about the legal side, more the reputational aspect.

I really like the idea of reaching out to the original maker and being upfront and asking them if they’re comfortable. May go that route just to be as aboveboard as possible with my intentions.

I always try to put my own twist on my knives, and I don’t think anyone in their right mind would ever confuse my work with his. Not even in the same realm TBH.
 
On one hand there may be little new under the sun. On the other hand, even for well established types of knives like hunters or Bowies, there are makers whose work is very distinctive and immediately recognizable.
I recently tried to make a "Bagwell Bowie", but mine would not be confused with Bill's work. Also, if you watch Bill's YouTube videos, what makes a Bagwell a Bagwell are details like how he does the heat treat and tempering.
 
I guess my question is, is anything really “original” anymore?

No, not really. And those designs that are truly original tend to be so freaky and outside the norm that no one would buy them. So unless you produce an identical copy of someone else's work, I wouldn't worry about it. Having a similar appearance to another design doesn't really matter, because all new knives are similar to existing designs. Watch Rick Beato on Youtube, who has a great channel about music theory. Many songs over the past few decades sound like other songs, because there is only so much you can do with seven notes. The same holds true for knives. Its also why all new cars look like suppositories. The search for aerodynamics leads everyone to the same design.
 
There are some designs out there that I think could be considered 'original'. Take Dave Lisch's integral finger guards on his bowies: 23244869252_4d6e6ef13a_b.jpg

I'm pretty sure this is considered an "original" design idea. And I'll go out on a limb here and say that I think that if one were to try to duplicate this as a test of skill in forging, and then tried to sell it, as long as you weren't trying to pass it off as one of Dave's knives, he'd apprecitate the attempt to replicate the style.
Another example would be forging animal heads that some folks do on the poll end of hawks. A lot of smiths in the PNW learned how to do animal heads from Darryl Nelson, and use the same technique in their own forgings without any risk of 'copyright' infringement. The only issue I've ever heard come up that comes close was years ago another NWBA member was advertising classes for folks to learn how to forge "Darryl Nelson animal heads". This was met with significant opposition from Darryl, as he was also giving classes so the other smith was competing directly. I think the solution was to take Darryl's name out of the advertisment.
 
No, not really. And those designs that are truly original tend to be so freaky and outside the norm that no one would buy them. So unless you produce an identical copy of someone else's work, I wouldn't worry about it. Having a similar appearance to another design doesn't really matter, because all new knives are similar to existing designs. Watch Rick Beato on Youtube, who has a great channel about music theory. Many songs over the past few decades sound like other songs, because there is only so much you can do with seven notes. The same holds true for knives. Its also why all new cars look like suppositories. The search for aerodynamics leads everyone to the same design.
Rick Beato....I watch a lot of his videos!
 
To add to my original post;

I think most of what we do today is replicate styles of knives -- and yes, we all add a bit of ourselves to each one.

But I look at it like this: A santoku is going to look like a santoku. If your buyer wants a santoku - it better look and perform like one! Right?

So if another maker regularly sells a santoku 'model' are you ripping off that maker for also selling a santoku? Heck no.

If he/she had a special pattern of file work on the spine or a specific DIY handle material that is not purchasable anywhere else... something like that and you go and copy it... yeah I guess I get where that becomes fuzzy waters. One would be purposefully ripping off a unique feature.

But in today's age of the internet, if somebody makes cotton swab nylon rope micarta and posts a picture of it anywhere... by the end of the day atleast a dozen others are now making cotton swab nylon rope micarta. lol

But in Weo's example above we see something that is both unique and requires a lot of experience and skill to pull off. If one were to knock that off in a shoddy way or pass it off as completely their own... I can see where that would be an issue.
 
I had a well know maker throw a temper tantrum at me. He claimed I made a knife with blade style of one maker and the handle style of another maker, both makers were deceased, and that he owned that combination on a knife and it was his intellectual property.

People for years have been making their version of both of these makers knives.

When I pointed this out he claimed he "was the first one to do this" I then sent him a picture of a knife Bob Dozier made for years with both these design elements.

When I showed him this and told him he himself makes a living copying another makers work and he did not own any design element of that knife, he pitch a fit and ended up blocking me LOL

I bet that maker who contacted you is not the originator of any design element of the knife he makes and you can find other who make similar designs.

Some think they are originators due to the ignorance of what came before them.
 
I had a well know maker throw a temper tantrum at me. He claimed I made a knife with blade style of one maker and the handle style of another maker, both makers were deceased, and that he owned that combination on a knife and it was his intellectual property.

People for years have been making their version of both of these makers knives.

When I pointed this out he claimed he "was the first one to do this" I then sent him a picture of a knife Bob Dozier made for years with both these design elements.

When I showed him this and told him he himself makes a living copying another makers work and he did not own any design element of that knife, he pitch a fit and ended up blocking me LOL

I bet that maker who contacted you is not the originator of any design element of the knife he makes and you can find other who make similar designs.

Some think they are originators due to the ignorance of what came before them.
You should have been flattered. No one would worry if your knife looked like crap...
 
I had a well know maker throw a temper tantrum at me. He claimed I made a knife with blade style of one maker and the handle style of another maker, both makers were deceased, and that he owned that combination on a knife and it was his intellectual property.

People for years have been making their version of both of these makers knives.

When I pointed this out he claimed he "was the first one to do this" I then sent him a picture of a knife Bob Dozier made for years with both these design elements.

When I showed him this and told him he himself makes a living copying another makers work and he did not own any design element of that knife, he pitch a fit and ended up blocking me LOL

I bet that maker who contacted you is not the originator of any design element of the knife he makes and you can find other who make similar designs.

Some think they are originators due to the ignorance of what came before them.
In your place, out of spite, I would made a hundred of that blade/handle combination :D Weird people out there , my friend :thumbsup:
 
As a maker who has had his design extensively copied and even counterfeited, I can tell you this:
Case, Western, Camillus, Schrade, Inperial, Colonial, etc. all made the same patterns of knives. No one accused them of copying.
Patents don't cover designs, unless that design has a solely new useful purpose.
You can copyright a name or a logo, but I doubt you can copyright a knife shape.
 
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