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Protection knife against wild animals.
- Thread starter Dkenz
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No, not really. There aren't that many choices out there, to begin with. I carry a brand called Counter Assault, which is the same brand used and recommended by the majority of Fish & Game field officers, National Park folks, many outdoor programs, etc. I know what it is, and I know what it does, and I haven't seen much reason to spend a a whole lot more time than that thinking about it.
Killgar,
I'm firmly in agreement with you on this point. And I'm not dismissing the initial premise of the conversation. I am, however, feeling compelled to point out that some of the suggestions being made are not all that realistic, in my opinion and in my experience. I recommend carrying any medium-length, fixed blade knife with you would normally carry for a host of other, mundane tasks in the backcountry. What type of knife it is really won't make much difference when it comes down to a last resort in an attack, like it or not. You're far better off doing everything you can to not let it come down to that in the first place, and paying attention to the facts regarding how often anyone has actually repelled a large predator attack with a knife. And that's the last I'll say on the subject - it's getting pretty tiresome.
That school teacher was killed by wolves in 2010
I don't know if there have been any since
Just like the hiker killed by coyotes a few years back
They are extremely rare, but they do happen
This is a true story that happened to me in 1991
My brother and I had been out hunting in the morning
We had lunch on a big granite rock just off the trail
The rock was slightly above ground level
It was sunny and warm, after lunch we took a nap
When we got up about an hour later there was fresh bear scat about 10 or 15 feet from where we slept
I mention this only to stress most animals out there intend you no harm
I don't know if there have been any since
Just like the hiker killed by coyotes a few years back
They are extremely rare, but they do happen
This is a true story that happened to me in 1991
My brother and I had been out hunting in the morning
We had lunch on a big granite rock just off the trail
The rock was slightly above ground level
It was sunny and warm, after lunch we took a nap
When we got up about an hour later there was fresh bear scat about 10 or 15 feet from where we slept
I mention this only to stress most animals out there intend you no harm
Brown bears and grizzlies are the same bear
The key comment from that myth is this: "But it is the wrong thing to do if you're being attacked by a predatory bear."
Few bears are predatory towards humans. Grizzlies and Polar bears are. Brown and black bears are not. There are exceptions, but again - the odds are in your favor if the bear is not a Grizzly or a Polar.
I'm not getting this stuff off of the internet. Again, I live in bear country and often interface with bears, guides and Wildlife and Fisheries. I see bears at least once a week. No Grizzlies or Polars, but tons of black bears here.
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Oh no.....
http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/bear-attacks-leave-4-injured-032927568.html
"Two separate grizzly bear attacks Thursday left four people with non-life threatening injuries.
The attacks took place just west of Island Park Reservoir in Idaho and Cygnet Lakes Trail, southwest of Canyon Village trail in Yellowstone National Park in Wyoming.
In Idaho, two private contractors doing habitat assessment work unknowingly were near a bear sleeping behind a tree."
http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/bear-attacks-leave-4-injured-032927568.html
"Two separate grizzly bear attacks Thursday left four people with non-life threatening injuries.
The attacks took place just west of Island Park Reservoir in Idaho and Cygnet Lakes Trail, southwest of Canyon Village trail in Yellowstone National Park in Wyoming.
In Idaho, two private contractors doing habitat assessment work unknowingly were near a bear sleeping behind a tree."
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The incident that happened outside of the Park was in the Centennial Mtns. just north of me. Seems like there are bear incidents in that particular range every year. Glad to hear that all involved are going to be ok, and glad to see that the folks in the Park were carrying spray, used it, and that it repelled the bear from what could have been a worse attack.
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I should include bear spray on my hikes.
I have seen mountain lion many times and always thought if i projected confidence and pretty much stomped the ground saying 'yeah I see you' would work most of the times buy I have a feeling not all lions think the same.
I have seen mountain lion many times and always thought if i projected confidence and pretty much stomped the ground saying 'yeah I see you' would work most of the times buy I have a feeling not all lions think the same.
Those were grizzly bear attacks. There are no grizzly bears in Virginia, the OP's location.
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no you are thinking to small how about a shotgun or hewing spear? or better yet a shotgun with a bayonet.
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Cool. Maybe I can find a folding packable zuchinni.
Look, I really don't have answers for myself, let alone anyone else. I do not trust Boreal black bears. I have a periferal concern about these animals. I have lived in areas were they come into the community. Then the police close down schools and the bears are trapped for relocation. I no longer have firearms and haven't for many years now. My only logical ( to myself) options now are caution and situational awareness, primarily. When I was in dense bush I would yell out now and then. I was extra cautious in the spring with cubs. I scanned my general areas while hiking\metal detecting. Being around water likley increased my possibilities of an encounter and I came across tracks more than once. But my actually sighting black bears was infrequent. For MYSELF, I have a set of bear bells, or shout now and then. I never did have bear spray but considered it. And............. drum roll please.............. I feel at least a little safer with a decent sized fixed blade knife and or hatchet\axe on me. Would this save me in one of these rare attacks ? I really don't know and hope not to find out. That's how I roll out there and it worked fine for me for years. I barely have an answer for myself, so I am no authority to give advice to others. For that, one should contact conservation officers or northern Indians, up here anyway.
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Heck I feel safer with a large knife secured to my pack or belt. I've had run-ins with bears on more than one occasion, mountain lions, snakes, feral hogs and what may have been a chupacabra! 
. But really whatever you think gives you the edge in that type of situation, a gun knife combo is what I carry. I recently bought a Condor Tool And Knife Matagi to throw on the end of my hiking staff just in case plus my son thinks its pretty cool. A good large blade against teeth and claws is better than nothing in my opinion.
. But really whatever you think gives you the edge in that type of situation, a gun knife combo is what I carry. I recently bought a Condor Tool And Knife Matagi to throw on the end of my hiking staff just in case plus my son thinks its pretty cool. A good large blade against teeth and claws is better than nothing in my opinion.
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The two recent incidents - one in Yellowstone and one a little west of YNP, and both involving grizz, offer some food for thought (according to what has been reported);
- In the YNP incident, it's worth noting that there was a group of four hikers (attacks on groups of 4 or more people are pretty unusual, compared to smaller groups/individuals, according to the stats). They apparently got close to a cub, unkowingly, and mom was on them quickly. Two of the group were attacked, and the other two both pulled out bear spray, and used it on the sow and cub. It was sufficient to stop the attack and make the bears run off. In short - the bear spray worked (as it often does), and it can be surmised that the attacks would have continued otherwise, and probably been much worse.
- In the other incident, a couple folks working for IDF&G came across (also apparently unknowingly) what appears to have been a sleeping grizz. The bear was startled and on them so fast that one of the guys barely had time to unholster his bear spray, and not enough time to press the trigger before the attack was underway. This is one of the worst case scenarios, but also not at all uncommon - a bear surprised at close range with barely enough time to react on the part of the individuals. Which begs the question - would a gun or knife have been of use in a situation such as this, if there was barely time for the individual to get his spray out of the holster?
The way I see it, from having looked at the details of a lot of bear attacks, is that you either have time to treat the situation from a distance - ideally by being able to remove yourself from the area, or if not, with bear spray or a firearm, or you don't. And if you can't treat it from a distance, a knife may offer some psychological comfort, but I can virtually guarantee that if you could interview the two individuals in the latter case above, and ask them if a knife would have helped, they would either laugh, or look at you as if you're insane. Luckily, they're still alive.
- In the YNP incident, it's worth noting that there was a group of four hikers (attacks on groups of 4 or more people are pretty unusual, compared to smaller groups/individuals, according to the stats). They apparently got close to a cub, unkowingly, and mom was on them quickly. Two of the group were attacked, and the other two both pulled out bear spray, and used it on the sow and cub. It was sufficient to stop the attack and make the bears run off. In short - the bear spray worked (as it often does), and it can be surmised that the attacks would have continued otherwise, and probably been much worse.
- In the other incident, a couple folks working for IDF&G came across (also apparently unknowingly) what appears to have been a sleeping grizz. The bear was startled and on them so fast that one of the guys barely had time to unholster his bear spray, and not enough time to press the trigger before the attack was underway. This is one of the worst case scenarios, but also not at all uncommon - a bear surprised at close range with barely enough time to react on the part of the individuals. Which begs the question - would a gun or knife have been of use in a situation such as this, if there was barely time for the individual to get his spray out of the holster?
The way I see it, from having looked at the details of a lot of bear attacks, is that you either have time to treat the situation from a distance - ideally by being able to remove yourself from the area, or if not, with bear spray or a firearm, or you don't. And if you can't treat it from a distance, a knife may offer some psychological comfort, but I can virtually guarantee that if you could interview the two individuals in the latter case above, and ask them if a knife would have helped, they would either laugh, or look at you as if you're insane. Luckily, they're still alive.
A bears annatomy is soft and easily pierced with a blade. Dressing out bear is not much different than other game animals, and cuts easily. In a defensive situation a person could deter the bear to look for easier game by cutting/stabbing whatever they can during an attack. A stab to the eye with a small folder might be enought to make the bear back down. Divers have done similar by punching/stabbing the eyes of sharks during an attackt to live and tell about it.
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This has gotten beyond ridiculous. You've already admitted that you don't have any real experience with bears, that you don't even camp or hike anymore, yet for some reason you continue to feel compelled to keep raising the point about carrying a knife to defend yourself from animals. Do whatever you want, buddy. I don't think I've ever said that one shouldn't carry a knife - all I said is I don't select my knife based on its effectiveness against large predators... And I believe I also clearly stated earlier that if it comes down to it, obviously use whatever you possibly can, including your knife, or kicking that bear in the nuts, if that's all you have. All I'm saying is - don't fool yourself, despite the few examples you've been able to dig up from the interwebs in an attempt to help bolster your point.
Get your information wherever you want, but personally, I don't use re-posted articles on "Outdoor Life" or "Testosterone Nation" as the basis for my decisions - I just spend lots of time outdoors, in bear, wolf and cat country. Your internet results may differ.
