Prove me wrong!

mitchnola

mitchnola

Cajun Ragamuffin
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A discussion was had yesterday evening in a fb group about the definition and classifications of knives. With the categories being production, mid tech and custom.

Here’s my opinion, prove me wrong! 😂

As far as production vs mid tech, I personally think that if the same knife is being made to spec and design wise repeatedly than it is a production knife no matter the volume of production or size of the company. I think the only distinction that is necessary say between a crk and a oz, eustler etc is production or small batch production. How or what process doesn’t matter. Even if someone is making the exact same knife over and over by hand, it’s still a production knife and could be called a handmade production knife.

I think it’s in this category of production that many terms can be used and debated.

But when it comes to custom there’s is only one true distinction that must be the case for anything to be custom and that’s a truly one of one piece. I mean that’s exactly what the word custom means. That’s it, nothing should be called a custom otherwise. By doing so is really disingenuous and an attempt to elevate something that isn’t truly a custom.

And how a custom is made whether all cnc, farmed out, handmade etc has nothing to do on whether the knife is a custom but rather only the fact that it’s a 1 of 1 is what makes it a custom.

I think it’s unfortunate that the term custom has been co opted to give undeserved stature to knives that are not custom at all and waters down the meaning and significance of true customs.

So while there can be and should be many sub categories of production knives. There should only be one defining factor for a custom, that it’s a 1 of 1. As previously stated it’s exactly what the word means and should not be watered down to mean anything else because it also waters down the respect and reverence that should only be reserved for a true custom and the makers making them.
 
"Ask five knife knuts what a midtech knife is, and you'll get six definitions." 🤣

I do think there's a difference between production and midtech, though. I've always liked Ken Onion's definition of midtech:
KenOnion said:
Mid-Tech is a class of knives I created a few years ago to put a dividing line between custom and production .I wanted to discontinue my Boa knife a few years ago due to bordom but the demand was still so high I didn't dare . So I decided to get the parts cut out for me and I would do the grinding shaping and finnishing myself .Problem was , I didn't want everyone to assume I did all my knives this way. I needed to devise a way to differentiate between my custom and these knives I had subbed out part of .The answer was Mid-Tech ,by creating a new category of knives somewhere between custom and production and marketing as such these "Mid-Tech" knives would clearly establish a dividing line between custom and Mid-Tech or less than 100% authorship. Honesty is the key here . Since then there are those that have adopted the term Mid-Tech and defined it differently than I ,which I don't agree with . I installed a dividing line between custom and Mid-Tech but failed to mention that if a knife is all subbed out it is still a PRODUCTION KNIFE. There are alot of makers and posers that think that by assembling a knife they farmed out 90% ,sharpening it and logoing it it is Mid-Tech . It is not a Mid-Tech it is primarily factory made and there for is a Production knife . Now I don't know what % authorship a knife needs to have to be called a Mid-Tech , didn't think it necessary but things bieng as they are there are those that will split hairs and do as little as possable by hand and use the term Mid-Tech where the spirit of the term is lost . Again always ask how much was hand made by the guy or gal whose name appears on the knife . Honor and Honesty are key and as much as we don't like to hear it there are some sneaky ,treacherous ,predators out there who will deliberately mislead in order to turn a quick buck . Most are credible ,honest folk just trying to make a living . Don't let the 10% ruin the credibility of the 90%.
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Dadpool said:
"Ask five knife knuts what a midtech knife is, and you'll get six definitions." 🤣

I do think there's a difference between production and midtech, though. I've always liked Ken Onion's definition of midtech:
Click to expand...

I don’t disagree, I’m familiar with Ken’s definition. I think the problem with the term is Ken created it to uniquely define the process in him increasing production capabilities on one of his popular models just to distinguish his own different process in making that particular model. It was never intended to become a whole sub category of production knives but that’s what it has become.

So I agree that it can be properly used to define higher end or even smaller volume numbers but it should be clear they are still production knives. Just a sub category of what’s still a production knife. I can’t rationalize how a mid tech would be wholly separate from production. Feel free to straighten me out. 😂
 
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mitchnola said:
A discussion was had yesterday evening in a fb group about the definition and classifications of knives. With the categories being production, mid tech and custom.

Here’s my opinion, prove me wrong! 😂

As far as production vs mid tech, I personally think that if the same knife is being made to spec and design wise repeatedly than it is a production knife no matter the volume of production or size of the company. I think the only distinction that is necessary say between a crk and a oz, eustler etc is production or small batch production. How or what process doesn’t matter. Even if someone is making the exact same knife over and over by hand, it’s still a production knife and could be called a handmade production knife.

I think it’s in this category of production that many terms can be used and debated.

But when it comes to custom there’s is only one true distinction that must be the case for anything to be custom and that’s a truly one of one piece. I mean that’s exactly what the word custom means. That’s it, nothing should be called a custom otherwise. By doing so is really disingenuous and an attempt to elevate something that isn’t truly a custom.

And how a custom is made whether all cnc, farmed out, handmade etc has nothing to do on whether the knife is a custom but rather only the fact that it’s a 1 of 1 is what makes it a custom.

I think it’s unfortunate that the term custom has been co opted to give undeserved stature to knives that are not custom at all and waters down the meaning and significance of true customs.

So while there can be and should be many sub categories of production knives. There should only be one defining factor for a custom, that it’s a 1 of 1. As previously stated it’s exactly what the word means and should not be watered down to mean anything else because it also waters down the respect and reverence that should only be reserved for a true custom and the makers making them.
Click to expand...
tl;dr
 
Richard338 said:
You say that a custom must be one of one. I claim that a pair can be custom and then the set is one of one.
My set of 5 steak knives is custom.
View attachment 3207470
Click to expand...

Ahh, great point! And I completely agree. A custom set should absolutely be considered custom as well. So even a little wiggle room is necessary in what defines a custom. Congrats, you got me! 😂
 
mitchnola said:
A discussion was had yesterday evening in a fb group about the definition and classifications of knives. With the categories being production, mid tech and custom.

Here’s my opinion, prove me wrong! 😂

As far as production vs mid tech, I personally think that if the same knife is being made to spec and design wise repeatedly than it is a production knife no matter the volume of production or size of the company. I think the only distinction that is necessary say between a crk and a oz, eustler etc is production or small batch production. How or what process doesn’t matter. Even if someone is making the exact same knife over and over by hand, it’s still a production knife and could be called a handmade production knife.

I think it’s in this category of production that many terms can be used and debated.

But when it comes to custom there’s is only one true distinction that must be the case for anything to be custom and that’s a truly one of one piece. I mean that’s exactly what the word custom means. That’s it, nothing should be called a custom otherwise. By doing so is really disingenuous and an attempt to elevate something that isn’t truly a custom.

And how a custom is made whether all cnc, farmed out, handmade etc has nothing to do on whether the knife is a custom but rather only the fact that it’s a 1 of 1 is what makes it a custom.

I think it’s unfortunate that the term custom has been co opted to give undeserved stature to knives that are not custom at all and waters down the meaning and significance of true customs.

So while there can be and should be many sub categories of production knives. There should only be one defining factor for a custom, that it’s a 1 of 1. As previously stated it’s exactly what the word means and should not be watered down to mean anything else because it also waters down the respect and reverence that should only be reserved for a true custom and the makers making them.
Click to expand...

That about sums it up pretty good. . .1781454333671.gif
 
Crag the Brewer said:
When one person orders 2 exactly the same. Exactly as handmade can be.....
They aren't custom???
View attachment 3207490View attachment 3207491View attachment 3207492View attachment 3207493
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No, I would agree that there should be a sub category called custom set as previously mentioned with Richard338 Richard338 custom steak knfe set.

But in general I’m primarily talking about non kitchen knives. I think that would probably require a whole other conversation and considerations.
 
Why not go even further? Why not say custom only refers to knives specifically made to a customer's specifications. So not even a one-off made in the maker's style is a custom. Of course, that would make the term mostly useless.

The usage of words changes over time, it's fine.
 
Is there a ‘bespoke’ category in knifemaking? Bespoke vs custom footwear is very different but it seems that in knives, ‘custom’ is about the highest tier makers use to describe their highly individual pieces of work.

Are there any knife makers that take hand prints to get the handle fit just right? I’d probably consider that bespoke work by definition lol.
 
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