Push cutting paper with 36 grit stone?

C

camcam2016

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Feb 9, 2017
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Ive been watching alot of cliff stamps videos. I think it sounds good and all but most of it sounds fabricated to me. I do believe what he says about blade steels, angles etc.. But i watched a video where he said he sharpened a knife, microbevel and all, with nothing but a 36 grit dressing stone. And then proceeded to show him effortlessly swipe the hair off his arm and push cut phone book paper. He said 10-20 passes per side or something simialar (i could have the numbers wrong but you get the idea). This seems to be total bs, i took the lowest grit stone i have and very lightly just like he did passed the blade across 20 times, it didnt sharpen the knife at all. And if you push harder its gouging the edge up. What are yalls oppinions is this guy brainwashing people or am i just a inexperienced sharpener and it is actually physically possible to make a knife push cut phone book paper off a stone rougher than a cinderblock.
 
I'm curious to see replies to the question also. Cliff is evidently a polarizing figure, to say the least. It's all before my time but evidently he was a frequent commenter here but wound up getting banned.
 
I know I've seen knives hit with 100 grit that have gone from nothing to very sharp. Dunno if 36 grit would do quite the same, but it's the same principle I guess.
 
I know Cliff has experimented with some very, very coarse edges in the past with good results, so it wouldn't surprise me.
 
The stone in the video he said was 36 grit. And it also looks every bit of 36 grit, it was a dressing stone not a sharpening stone as well. It didnt look like it would get softer with use because it looked like the grit particles where an eigth inch high. Very Very course. I just dont see how he can do it with light strokes and then i replicate the video on a stone thats even higher grit (120 i think) and cant achieve nothing beyond slicing printer paper. Again im not a professional sharpener, but its not hard to lightly stroke a knife at the right angle 5-10 times.

So far i seem to gather about 50 percent are sceptical like me and the other 50 are sceptical but believe it could be possible.
 
It's legitimate. I can get similar sharpness with just a fine file.

Cliff uses that knife quite a bit for sharpening experiments and comparisons, so it helps to understand that he's sharpened it probably hundreds of times.
 
Whats the secret? lol. I figured a professional sharpener could do way better than me. But that was like 100 times better than me. I really am curious and looking for tips and i do believe you, i just find it outstanding some people can get more on 36 grit then i can on 2000 grit.

I will post the video after someone can confirm or deny if its against the rules, im new here and have already broken the rules once or twice on accident.
 
Also understand that the edge was already shaped and ready for the final passes. What knives have you tried? What stone are you using? The same type of edge is possible of the coarse side of the Norton Economy stone he has in the video, and it's in the 80 to 100 grit range. There are people who can sharpen a straight razor with just a coarse (300 grit) diamond stone and leather strop. I'm not trying that one though.
 
The secret is in the last line of my post above and ends with "hundreds of times".
 
If you go through your normal sharpening routine, how sharp can you get a knife? Are you happy with that sharpness? Can you give a procedure description? There's no reason to think you couldn't do the same thing. You might buggar up an edge or two but that's the cost of learning.
 
The sharpest i can get is shaving hair at 25 degrees on the lansky with a 1000 grit stone. And not shaving hair like he did, its not effortless. I can do the same with a 2 dollar ace hardware stone and car polish though. I seem to have a plateua for maximum sharpness. Am i satisfied it depends. Im satisfied as far as daily cutting goes, i would never need sharper. But as far as wanting just for the sake of loving knives and being interested in sharp knives im nowhere near satisfied. i have tried all the tips ive read on the lansky and thats still all i can do. The sharpest knife i have is the mora and its just how i got it plus polished, its alot sharper then i got it just from polishing it will shave hair effortlessly, pushcut etc.. but wont pop hairs in thin air and feel its a long way from that point. I do need more practice, i was just curious if it was possible. So basically even with what i have i have a lot more potential. And im not sure steel matters but on the lansky ive only sharpened cheaper steels. My best steel is n690 and it never needs sharpening bc i strop it. Rather practice on the cheaper knives than sharpen a knife i dont need to.
 
There are some professional sharpeners and people who could be professional sharpeners in maintenance and tinkering subforum. They could probably confirm or dispel with much more authority than us regular knife users.

And you have to realize that most of the time Cliff Stamp advocates running very, very low abrasion resistant steels at very, very low angles and then coming in and making a couple of passes at a much higher angle and saying he made only a couple of passes to sharpen a knife. That's not entirely accurate of him to phrase it that way. He should say, and often does say, that he's apexing his knife with just a couple of passes.

Having said all that, I believe it's possible to get an arm hair shaving apex from a couple of incredibly light passes off of a 36 grit stone. Everything else would need to be done first and the passes would have to be so light they didn't actually abrade anything but yes, I believe it could be done that way.

Cliff Stamp is a huge proponent of using some really cheap steels and does pretty much anything he can to show why cheap steels are better than expensive steels. But he frames it as low alloy and high alloy and doesn't really separate a lot of that. And if you want to know what he knows just go read what Kevin Cashen, Roman Landes, and Van Der Hoeven say about knives and then parrot it and conduct experiments aimed to prove those guys are right and by association, you, because you created the experiment that says what they said first.
 
Lot of salt in here.

You can find Cliff in his own forum. I'm sure he'd chat about it if you don't start the conversation asking if he's a fraud or just a liar.
 
I can get my edges to shave arm hair off of a Coarse dmt or the coarse side of a Norton Crystallon.

Depending on the alloy, hardness and intended usage, I will vary my edge "bite".
 
I have no reason to doubt his word. I've read a lot of his work, and he's a smart fellow.
 
bodog said:
There are some professional sharpeners and people who could be professional sharpeners in maintenance and tinkering subforum. They could probably confirm or dispel with much more authority than us regular knife users.

And you have to realize that most of the time Cliff Stamp advocates running very, very low abrasion resistant steels at very, very low angles and then coming in and making a couple of passes at a much higher angle and saying he made only a couple of passes to sharpen a knife. That's not entirely accurate of him to phrase it that way. He should say, and often does say, that he's apexing his knife with just a couple of passes.

Having said all that, I believe it's possible to get an arm hair shaving apex from a couple of incredibly light passes off of a 36 grit stone. Everything else would need to be done first and the passes would have to be so light they didn't actually abrade anything but yes, I believe it could be done that way.

Cliff Stamp is a huge proponent of using some really cheap steels and does pretty much anything he can to show why cheap steels are better than expensive steels. But he frames it as low alloy and high alloy and doesn't really separate a lot of that. And if you want to know what he knows just go read what Kevin Cashen, Roman Landes, and Van Der Hoeven say about knives and then parrot it and conduct experiments aimed to prove those guys are right and by association, you, because you created the experiment that says what they said first.
Click to expand...
yeah, one has to be careful. People make a lot of ridiculous claims on the Internet and forums...(I'm not saying Cliff does or doesnt) only that people write some crazy stuff.



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Cheaper and usually softer steel can be a pain to sharpen. Some will get a burr that seems almost impossible to remove unless you grind it off at a steep angle and basically dull the knife.

Very light strokes seem to be necessary with softer steels and edge trailing strokes can help as well. Working up a burr is a great way to know both sides have met but then you have the burr to deal with. Alternating strokes won't develop a burr like working one side at a time, but both sides will eventually meet either way which can also be a good way to deal with a stubborn burr. But if both sides don't meet the knife won't sharp and any work at finer grit won't be refining the edge and it won't be getting sharp though you keep sharpening and usually it ends in frustration.

You need to keep sharpening at one grit until the edge is sharp before moving to the next grit. Just because someone sharpened X amount of times to get sharp doesn't mean your knife and conditions will get sharp with the same amount of work and you may need more or less. Don't try to copy someone else because that won't dictate the amount of work that's needed and you need to work it until sharp.

Also, if you are stropping try doing so a few degrees more shallow per side. A strop with give will wrap around the edge and doing so will dull it. You need to work more shallow so that wrap around stops right at the edge which will make it sharp. Less downward pressure will reduce the amount of wrap around but will require more passes to do the same amount of work and you will still need to lower the angle slightly.

Sharpening isn't easy and takes practice until you learn to hold a consistent angle and also what the right angle feels like on the stones and strop. Some things can make things easier for different people. For me the harder and carbide rich steels (which are usually the more expensive ones) are easier to maintain probably because a mistake doesn't do as much damage. Also, stropping on 1 micron diamond is the key for me to get the tree topping sharp edges that will whittle hair. I have tried metal polish, green chrome oxide, red rouge and other softer compounds and I almost always made the edge worse instead of better. Switching to diamond instantly made stropping a very positive experience for me, and I consider my diamond compounds the best sharpening purchase I've made and I probably wouldn't enjoy knives as much as I do had I not discovered it.

Also, it seems like sharpening is frustrating for most and then there is something that just clicks and they are able to start getting a sharp edge consistently. So keep practicing and trying different techniques and experimenting with minor adjustments with your process and you will find something that works for you.
 
Thanks for the info! about the stropping ya sometimes it seems to make my knives duller. And i knew the tip about keeping the angle lower and light strokes so you dont dull the knife stropping it. I think when my knives are able to shave my hair its sharper than would seem because i have really soft arm hair, like female hair. And it would seem more difficult to cut then manly arm hair that stands at attention. What do you guys think of this? I just say this because factory knives from cold steel, crkt, spyderco etc.. that everyone says is really sharp will barely cut any hair off my arm. And i was curious if ones person "just shaving" is different than anothers.

Mountainbiker thank you for the tips, some of them i may not have known and i will look into the diamond compound. Right now i have a belt hung on the wall and a piece of mdf (or atleast i think could be wrong, close enough) that i strop on. I just use car polish. Buffing compound and then polishing compound. Not made for knives but it does get the edges real shiny.
 
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