Q: Are ALL Strider Folders (NON-Buck) Heat-Treated?

[Specialized]

Yeah, no kidding. I just googled it, there's quite a bit of info on it. Sounds like really tough stuff. I'd never even heard of it.

The ones I'm familiar with are ATS-34/154CM, S30V, D2, and some varieties of stainless. I have more reading to do, since so much of gunsmithing is really more about the machinist's trade. All fascinating stuff, though. Thanks!

Specialized

 

[tirod3]

Heat treating in firearms is not as much of an issue as knives. Not heat treating blades would be like not rifling the barrel, and the resultant concern expressed relates to that.

The web site quotation does leave it questionable to some, but it would be equivalent to the Wilson Tactical site suggesting that a renown barrel maker didn't rifle their 1911 models for six months. Few enthusiasts would assume that the barrels received no rifling whatsoever - but it does point out the general public's lack of knowledge about manufacturing processes in man's oldest tool, the knife.

Frankly, I think there was an overreaction to the question, but it stems largely from our familiarity with knife construction, and our attitudes fostered by certain comments from other threads unrelated to the knives themselves. If anything, it shows just how difficult the situation has become.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Frankly, I think there was an overreaction to the question, but it stems largely from our familiarity with knife construction, and our attitudes fostered by certain comments from other threads unrelated to the knives themselves. If anything, it shows just how difficult the situation has become.

That's the truth. We should all concentrate on the knives themselves!

 

[Specialized]

That's the truth. We should all concentrate on the knives themselves!

I have to agree with you there! By the way, thanks for the link earlier -- it's good reading. I've been perusing it last night and this morning.

Specialized

 

[JD Mandrell]

If it is a policy of this forum that one must be educated to a certain level of experience or knowledge prior to being granted the privilege of posting here, might I suggest that it be made a part of the registration process, perhaps via a test that must be passed to satisfaction prior to successful completion of that process. I seem to have slipped through whatever neophyte/newbie/retard detection phalanx is currently deployed at the front gate. :jerkit: Silly me, I thought you could just register and walk right in.

You can, but when you walk in and make a statement, not a question, but a statement that "clearly some Buck knives are not heat-treated", you show that possibly you need to ask more question and make fewer statements until you learn.


In fact, I don't care if they caught him in bed with, as Huey Long once opined, "a dead girl or a live boy". All I care is that he and his company make very high-quality, well-designed, tough knives. [/quote]

That pretty much says it all now doesn't it? :thumbdn:

 

[Specialized]

Okay TLC, let's review. I ask a question in a forum. You reply with a condescending and ridiculing attack. I ask you to stop. You keep going.

You've voted twice now. Is that it, or do you plan to vote again? :jerkit:

I love that little icon. They should've named it after you.

Specialized

 

[whitedragon_48]

Play nice fellows

 

[JD Mandrell]

Okay TLC, let's review. I ask a question in a forum.

No, you made a baseless uninformed statement about Buck not heat-treating some of their knives. That wasn't a question.

I ask you to stop. You keep going.

Actually no you made a remark about "confederate money".

I love that little icon.
Specialized

You would, this from the guy that would support a knife maker even if he was a child molestor or child killer..........

 

[3Guardsmen]

There are, however, stupid answers, and yours, Mr. 3Guardsmen, is a shining example.

Care to elaborate, sir? Care to point out what part of the answer I gave you was stupid (I've quoted my entire post below)? All of the information I posted, regarding your question, was factual to the best of my knowledge, found using the "search" feature, which is something people frequently use to gather information, prior to publicly stating that reputable manufacturers don't heat treat their knives.

First of all, the "Bos" logo, seen on knives, is only indicative of who performed the heat treatment.

According to what I've read, Strider's knives now go to the shop that was set up and formerly run by Paul Bos. When Mr. Bos made the move out of California, along with Buck Knives, he left the shop he had set up, with the specs he had set up, to his former employees, who still heat treat the Strider knives to his original specs.

Clearly, some of the Buck Striders are not heat-treated.

Specialized

In my opinion, for you to make a statement like that, without any sort of qualification whatsoever, and due to your own misunderstanding, is a slap in the face, not only to Paul Bos, who has and currently oversees the heat treatment that ALL Buck knives undergo, but to Buck as well.

The search feature would have saved you some embarrasment: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=433207

3G

Perhaps the part of my "answer" you thought was "stupid" was the part where I explained my opinion of your erroneous statement, not based in fact? If that is in fact what you are referring to, that was not an "answer," but in fact an opinion of mine, which I'm entitled to post.

I have gone ahead and linked this thread to the Buck forum here, so some of the Buck representatives can hopefully address the misinformation you appear to me to be spreading about how their knives are (or are not) heat treated. We'll have to see what they think.

So do me a favor, don't try to "help" me anymore. You can be whatever you want to be in your own mind without bothering me in the process.

My advice would be this; If you don't want answers, don't ask questions on public forums. As far me not replying to statements I feel are inaccurate, even if they're posted by you, forget about. I'll post as often as I feel like it, regardless of whether or not you appreciate it.

Regards,
3G

 

[Specialized]

*** TO TLC -- My apologies. This post was aimed squarely at 3Guardsmen, and the name mixup is purely mine. Sorry about that. ***

Alright, 3Guardsmen. I can't explain your hostility or why you alone have reacted with so much anger and vitriol when every other poster has been helpful, not to mention more mature about their greater knowledge on the subject of heat-treating steel. But I know what I asked, and by pointing it out I'll explain it to you. The question I asked is this:

How about the non-Buck knives, say, the SMF's -- is it accurate to say that they ALL are heat-treated?

I also said that it was clear that some knives didn't get heat-treated, based on the following exerpt from Strider's link to BadLands.com:

When they (BUCK) made the move up to the new place, there was half a year with no heat treat.

That's an ambiguous statement. Does it mean that, for six months, no Buck Striders got heat-treated? Does it mean that for six months no Striders got heat treated? Am I expected to think that either one shut down for six months because there was no "heat treat" available? Whatever way one might presuppose, the statement is clear: There. Was. No. Heat. Treat. For. Half. A. Year. So, your statement to the effect that my question was totally unsubstantiated is only true in your mind.

At some point there, you characterized my post as a "slap in the face" of Paul Bos, and Buck Knives, et al. Feeling the need for a little safety in numbers? I'm guessing that Paul Bos, and Buck Knives, have more than enough maturity and self-esteem to let a statement, even if it's an erroneous conclusion based on a comment by Mick Strider on his website, either roll off their backs or use it as an impetus to clarify the statement in question. In fact, I'll bet they'll be happy to write to me, or post here somewhere, and clarify it as a response to our discussion, and I bet they'll be perfectly civil adults during the whole process. Which brings me to another point.

Can you explain to me why, out of the dozen or so posters here in this particular thread, you are the only one that has taken such offense to the original inquiry and been so condescendingly aggressive in your responses? Everyone else has been helpful, and many have commented on the offensiveness of your replies. It's as if you're taking this all very personally. Here's a hint: You want to spout your opinions everywhere, and then go barking after anyone that has an alternative opinion or doesn't have the background in the subject that you might (or might not, for that matter) have. Do you somehow think that 700+ posts gives you the right to shout down or ridicule someone else just because they're asking for answers you already think you know? I don't know how anyone could define immaturity without citing that as a prime example.

So what about your post is "stupid"? There's your answer. With work shown on scratch paper. <***** This part self-censored, because after a few hours it seemed a bit harsh. *****> Have a nice day!

Specialized

 

[cutter17]

This is absolutely wild. You folks are getting bent out of shape over an obvious mistake that ALL of us know could not be possible, this in reference to the Bucks having no heat treat. Just correct the OP and go on with life, Lord knows there are a lot more important things in this life to worry about.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Some of you guys are way out of line. I think it goes back to being mad at him for not knowing-it-all like you do. But ...

No, you made a baseless uninformed statement about Buck not heat-treating some of their knives.

This is really just wrong. He didn't make a baseless uninformed statement. He made a carefully researched but misinformed statement:

Having read a fairly carefully-worded FAQ pointed to by the Strider website, and having looked at their site itself, I'm still a bit confused about the heat treatment of their knives.

... followed by ...

One of the things that led me to the SnG (which I currently own) and the SMF (which I hope to buy shortly) is the research I've done on this and other forums, and on the Strider website. And one of the areas I have pored over is the Frequent Questions section of Strider's website, which is a compilation of questions and answers as compiled from the Badlands and UsualSuspectNet forums, and is quite informative as to the history, materials, and designs of Strider knives. In fact, the catalyst for this particular thread is found in that same spot, right here:

http://www.badlandsforums.com/faq/WhoHeatTreats.shtml

After a first line that states that all Strider knives were heat treated by Paul Bos, an update appears that amends the answer. One line from that particular update caught my eye in particular (items in [] brackets, and those in italics, were added by me for clarity): "We don't use Paul [Bos] on ALL of our gear any longer.

When they (BUCK) made the move up to the new place, there was half a year with no heat treat. Paul founded the place we use here, and we still use his procedure. We just can't ship every knife to our ol uncle hot fingers any longer....

So rather than bother with the stamping of the knives he actually does....we just stopped stamping the logo."

So. It looks like 1) the Badlands is not a good place to go for clear, detailed, unambiguous information about Strider Knives -- but how would a new guy know that? And 2) we've got people here on BF who are more concerned with being tough guys than just about anything else, even sharing knife knowledge.

I gotta say, I have really enjoyed seeing how one misinformed new guy has managed to learn what he came here to find out in between slapping you back down.

 

[JD Mandrell]

Specialized, Is this not a direct quote from your opening post?

Clearly, some of the Buck Striders are not heat-treated.

At some point there, you characterized my post as a "slap in the face" of Paul Bos, and Buck Knives,

No I didn't, I never mentioned Paul Bos once, and I never used the phrazse "slap in the face" to him or Buck knives.

You always just make up stuff to suit you?

Can you explain to me why, out of the dozen or so posters here in this particular thread, you are the only one that has taken such offense to the original inquiry and been so condescendingly aggressive in your responses?

Others have attempted to point out your errors also, for some "odd" reason you seem fixated on me???

many have commented on the offensiveness of your replies.

Where?...actually only you have. One person threw in some profanity, but did not specifically quote me.

It's as if you're taking this all very personally. Here's a hint: You want to spout your opinions everywhere, and then go barking after anyone that has an alternative opinion

You mean like attacking someone that points out the error of your misinformed opinion about something?

just because they're asking for answers you already think you know?

You were not asking, you were stating that Buck does not HT some of their knives, something I did know, that you apparently did not, but felt we needed to hear.

 

[JD Mandrell]

This is really just wrong. He didn't make a baseless uninformed statement. He made a carefully researched but misinformed statement:.

I stand corrected E.B.!

 

[rosconey2]

guys -pissing match's are better served in another forum-

 

[JD Mandrell]

Rosco's right, got carried away.

I'm done.

 

[HoB]

Well, maybe we forget a lot of the previous posts and approach the initial question with a bit less bias.

Bos is probably the most famous heattreater in the field and has a custom shop. There are some steels, and experience seems to show that S30V is among them, that need a very careful heattreat in order to perform well. While there has been complains about S30V from well respected companies, I haven't really read much about complains about S30V heattreated by Bos. So the stamp may be a bit more than just collectors value. That said, he is not the only one who knows how to heattreat S30V or other steels for that matter, but with a blade stamped with Bos you can be pretty sure that your blade was treated with as much expertise and care as anyone in this field could offer.

Steel that isn't heat treated is about as soft as flatware (forks, spoons etc) or even softer. Flatware is usually made from a stainless steel with such a high Ni content that it precludes heattreating. As Nozh, I believe, said, you can quite literally bend it with your hands. I might cost you some effort but you can actually bend it if it is not too thick (1/4 stock and up is a challenge to bend even if it is not heattreated). So if there were some knives that aren't heattreated at all (and I am sure there are some cheap Ginsu 2000 type knives that aren't) you would know pretty quickly.

As to your source of information: they aren't really the most reliable. The forums that you mentioned have a strong company affiliation and usually more complete and sometimes more correct information is found in unaffiliated forums, except of course if you are searching about specific information about certain models and company specific topics (I find there are some notable exceptions though). And then there is simply the fact that some people are better at explaining than others. The choice of words in the excerpts you posted might have given you a clue that there like could be a misunderstanding going on ("no longer used on all our blades" seems a really arkward way of saying that "none of their blades are treated by Bos any longer"). But this may as it be and I hope you will find answers on this site.

I, for one, am a little bit embarrassed and disconcerted at the reception you received. While I don't approve of Maquahuitl's language, I think his point was in essence right. By the same token, while I can understand you frustration, the type of language you are using in your last post is usually not tolerated for long here either.

If you head over to the Toolshed you will find the FAQ by Joe Talmadge which is a good introduction to steels. With a little bit of luck you will also find someone there, who might be able to answer specific questions with regard to heattreating that you might have.

 

[Walking Man]

Apparently we have members here who don't understand that some people are new to the knife world, and sometimes ask uninformed questions, as did we all at one time.
DID ANY OF YOU ACTUALLY LOOK AT THE WORDING ON THE STRIDER WEBSITE BEFORE JUMPING DOWN HIS THROAT!
I apologize for their rudeness, and would like to say welcome to Bladeforums, I think you'll find most members much kinder.
Let me also say that it's a good thing you didn't ask that question in a few other forums, their dog pack ways would have banned you for uttering "blasphemy".

BTW, ARE THE STELLITE BLADES HEAT TREATED?

 

[Specialized]

Hey, TLC, I owe you an apology! I got started with the whole 3Guardsmen response, and somehow managed to munge you two together. Your post pointing out that I don't know what I'm talking about might be right, but it was still not helpful. But some of what I said above was supposed to be directed at 3Guardsmen, not you. My apologies for the mixup.

However, that being said, I don't appreciate getting dismissive, one-sentence replies like your original post in this thread. You are certainly within your purview to post things like that, but nobody has to take them lying down. Same goes for 3G, for that matter. If what I said was incorrect, correct me. I would think that given the time either of you has been on this forum, questions from new and less informed members would be at least somewhat familiar to you, and that you would be more inclined to teach, rather than scorn and dismiss. If your response in this post indicates that I can expect either or both of you herewith to be part of the noise and not the signal, I can deal with that. It's just part of the overhead of life.

So, in light of the comments posted today and yesterday, I'm much smarter about knives and heat-treating that I was a few days ago. I don't know why the lesson had to sting that much, but that's the way one remembers, I guess. I by no means meant to blaspheme any knife gods with my first post -- I merely interpreted what I read, after studying the only sources I had found at the time, and now have more knowledge than I did before.

I now know that the wizened little white-haired man at the top of the heat-treat mountaintop is Paul Bos, for instance. As for my soon-to-be-acquired SMF, knowing that it will have been treated by his process, if not necessarily him, is good news, even if his logo isn't present on the knife. It's going to be a user, so those sorts of value-add stampings won't mean that much to it, I suspect. It seems to me that there are a fair amount of collectors here, and connoisseurs of knife art, and I am neither of those things. I just want to know how to gauge the quality and features of a good, hard-use knife, without having to wade through the more Internet Commando-oriented sites to learn it. And also have a forum in which to trade, buy, and sell the knives that interest me. Make sense?

Now, hopefully we can get back to normal, and get past this little dustup I unwittingly seem to have started. If not, send me an email or a PM, we'll take it off-line so we're not providing noise for the other good people on this forum. Thanks,

Specialized

 

[Specialized]

Thank you for the welcome, Walking Man, and again to those who have offered theirs earlier. I appreciate it, and your comments as well.

And now, I'm off to google Stellite, because I'm dang sure not gonna ask the question out loud...

Specialized

P.S. HoB -- You're right, I shouldn't have used at least one of those words. My apologies to the forum for that. I appreciate your reasoned and well-intentioned arguments, too. Thank you for pointing them out so eloquently, and more in keeping with the vast majority of what I've read in this forum.