QC in production knife making

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Just curious to get the more experienced view on this - how much QC is done, and what types of flaws are considered "acceptable" when a knife goes out the door? Maybe it's easier to ask what is unacceptable, because I've purchased some 25 folding knives in the past few months and am astonished at the rate of obvious flaws that I am finding in the final product. I would estimate that only 60-70% of the knives I received were without some readily noticeable flaw in the blade finish, grind, bevel, handle material, or some aspect of mechanical functioning. This doesn't seem to be isolated to a particular brand, either - I've seen inconsistencies with Benchmade, Spyderco, SOG, Kershaw, and as of today Zero Tolerance. Look at this tool mark that was left in the choil on the 0560 that was just delivered!

Edit: Some responders have indicated that this groove on the back of the flipper may be put there on purpose on later productions of the 0560, to provide extra clearance with the stop bar and thus help the detent line up with the ball on closure. If true, I find this to be somewhat inelegant.

14935016317_ea57da472f_z.jpg


Again, I don't mean to pick on a particular brand (ZT in this case) because again, all of the brands I have dealt with seem to be susceptible to these issues on some level. It's just that in this day of CNC machining, ISO manufacturing standards, etc, etc, I would have thought these companies could do better. It's not as if a knife is an especially complicated device.
 
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I would be on the side of the spectrum who would say you're probably too picky. I didn't even understand what you were referring to at first, but after I saw what you were talking about, I can tell you I'd never even notice that on any of my knives. Also, I think that you're probably setting yourself up for failure if you expect that level of quality control from a mass-produced product that's made to sell at a certain price point.

The companies you mention are doing just fine, bringing affordable, strong, dependable knives to the market for us to enjoy. A tooling mark? Really? Buy a custom if you want every last detail to be perfect. :thumbup:
 
Jarrod, I can't honestly say that my experiences encompass the degree of blemish/flaw rate that you are seeing. In addition, my 'flaw tolerance' is probably much higher than yours as my knives are all 'users'. That said, if I dropped the coin on a ZT, I would probably expect more that you got.
 
All my knives are users, too. The thing is, if I'm dropping $150-$200 on a top-quality production knife, I expect just that - top quality. Not something with deep gouges in the blade stock, a blade that physically *rattles* when it's closed, or carbon fiber scales that look like they've been dragged across asphalt. These are all things I've recently experienced on new knives that cost over $150. Unacceptable in my book.
 
If you look at the fit and finish of say that Zt compared to a Sebenza you will notice a difference. That mark on the zt is so minor that I would never have seen it. Now compare that to a Emerson and you will notice a difference again. On knives under 200 bucks or so your still looking at a largely machine finished and assembled on a production line tool. The pieces are mass produced and just assembled, I think your expecting more than your going to find perfection wise. Your just not going to get a completely flawless knife unless you jump up a bit more in price.
 
Maybe my photo isn't good enough to get across the nature of the issue on this ZT. Trust me, you would have seen it, and felt it. This isn't just a mar in the finish. It's a cylindrical gouge out of the metal, approximately 1/8" wide and 1/32" deep. You don't only see it, you feel it when your finger presses into the choil. So you all are telling me that this sort of issue is reasonably expected on a $220 knife? I'm not so willing to lie down for it, personally.

But I don't expect flawless. I can and do accept what I consider minor defects such as minor (~1mm) off-center closure, imperfect finish on machined scale edges, etc. I *am* a bit surprised at the rate of minor issues and the fact that what I consider major defects (like this ZT) occur at all, given modern manufacturing techniques. I mean, I just don't see these kind of issues on, say, your typical $100 stainless steel watch case, $100 eyeglass frames, better hand tools, etc.

Edit: Some responders have indicated that this groove on the back of the flipper may be put there on purpose on later productions of the 0560, to provide extra clearance with the stop bar and thus help the detent line up with the ball on closure. If true, I find this to be somewhat inelegant.
 
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I'm gonna be a little crass and say you're probably a little on the picky side of the spectrum too. How much did you pay for your car? Are you complaining about all the visible tooling marks on the engine block? look close and you can easily find them. I tend to weigh in more on the function side of things, off center blades that don't scrape the liners don't change the ability of a knife to cut a single bit. Neither do slightly off center grinds. I like it if it works and cuts. Titanium I can anodize pretty colors gets bonus points.

Grizz
 
All my knives are users, too. The thing is, if I'm dropping $150-$200 on a top-quality production knife, I expect just that - top quality. Not something with deep gouges in the blade stock, a blade that physically *rattles* when it's closed, or carbon fiber scales that look like they've been dragged across asphalt. These are all things I've recently experienced on new knives that cost over $150. Unacceptable in my book.

If your knife rattles, or the scale really looks that bad then you should send it in for warranty. Now your zt you should contact the dealer and see if they will exchange it for you. As stated before not everything will get caught in qc, but with the things that you are saying you are finding... Just send them in and the warranty dept. will take care of you.
 
I guess when you have the job of looking at knives all day, there's bound to be a few clunkers that get by. You the consumer have the option of keeping it, or sending it back for an exchange or refund.
 
I find the heat treat in production knives to be all over the place. I've got 5 different BM D2 knives and none of the edges behave the same. Some are hard to sharpen and won't hold and edge, some are great, and easy to sharpen, even with the same model. Some rust in your pocket in a hour and one I can't get to rust. I know it's not cosmetic, but I imagine it has to do with them being heat treated in such large batches and meeting the quench times. After having a handful of nice customs I've learned not to expect to much of production folders.
 
Are you talking about the line on the back of the flipper? It looks like a reflection in the pic, if that is a gouge and thats what your talking about then yeah I'd send that back.
 
Try some GEC made Northfields, they're pretty darn well made.

I personally was amazed that such a well made knife could be mass produced when i got my 0560, but i got it for ~160 so that's a difference.
 
Just curious to get the more experienced view on this - how much QC is done, and what types of flaws are considered "acceptable" when a knife goes out the door? Maybe it's easier to ask what is unacceptable, because I've purchased some 25 folding knives in the past few months and am astonished at the rate of obvious flaws that I am finding in the final product. I would estimate that only 60-70% of the knives I received were without some readily noticeable flaw in the blade finish, grind, bevel, handle material, or some aspect of mechanical functioning. This doesn't seem to be isolated to a particular brand, either - I've seen inconsistencies with Benchmade, Spyderco, SOG, Kershaw, and as of today Zero Tolerance. Look at this tool mark that was left in the choil on the 0560 that was just delivered!

14935016317_ea57da472f_z.jpg


Again, I don't mean to pick on a particular brand (ZT in this case) because again, all of the brands I have dealt with seem to be susceptible to these issues on some level. It's just that in this day of CNC machining, ISO manufacturing standards, etc, etc, I would have thought these companies could do better. It's not as if a knife is an especially complicated device.


You are talking about production knives here and in the $100 to $200 range so i wouldn't expect perfection at all.

That said the quality is there, the materials get better in that range so that is a plus also.

If you are looking for problems you will find them, that goes for most things people will buy these days, that's just the reality of mass production.

A perfect knife that has no flaws if you are looking for them????

Well be prepared to open your wallet wide open and wait for a very long time for a Custom, and the pickier you are the more the knife will cost in the end as the finial finishing takes a long time so be prepared to pay a lot.

What is a lot?

Well from a top maker you could be looking at thousands depending on what the finial specs are and how picky you want to be and the wait time could be years as in 2 to 5 years.....

That's just putting things into perspective.....

Or you could look at Chris Reeve knives, top quality and very high level of fit and finish for production knives, but it will cost you....
 
Are you talking about the line on the back of the flipper? It looks like a reflection in the pic, if that is a gouge and thats what your talking about then yeah I'd send that back.

Yes that's what I'm talking about. It's not a line, or a reflection. It's where the CNC mill crashed and took out a chunk of metal, right where your hand goes.

Edit: Some responders have indicated that this groove on the back of the flipper may be put there on purpose on later productions of the 0560, to provide extra clearance with the stop bar and thus help the detent line up with the ball on closure. If true, I find this to be somewhat inelegant.
 
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Return the knife to the dealer and request a refund or ask them to inspect a replacement before they ship it to you.I would contact them and explain the issue/get RMA then return it pronto if I was not happy.That knife appears to be a blem in my book and needs some XXX's
 
If you are looking for problems you will find them, that goes for most things people will buy these days, that's just the reality of mass production.

A perfect knife that has no flaws if you are looking for them????

No, not looking looking for problems. But if I spend $200 on a knife I do expect all the metal to be where it is supposed to be.

I feel like you all labelled me as a nit picker before studying the pic and trying to understand the issue at hand.
 
Raise your spend to $450 then you can start complaining. "high quality" does not necessarily imply perfection in execution.

All my knives are users, too. The thing is, if I'm dropping $150-$200 on a top-quality production knife, I expect just that - top quality. Not something with deep gouges in the blade stock, a blade that physically *rattles* when it's closed, or carbon fiber scales that look like they've been dragged across asphalt. These are all things I've recently experienced on new knives that cost over $150. Unacceptable in my book.
 
No, not looking looking for problems. But if I spend $200 on a knife I do expect all the metal to be where it is supposed to be.

I feel like you all labelled me as a nit picker before studying the pic and trying to understand the issue at hand.

Hardly....

I did read it and looked at the photo....

However as others have stated send the knife back, should have taken like a few mins to notice the issues and call the dealer.....

Not sure why a thread was started in the 1st place if it's really as bad as you say.... The knife should have already been on it way back...

Personally I would have put it right back in the box right away and shipped it back.... Buts that's me.....
 
Did you purchase the knife from a reputable dealer?Why not just return it for an exchange or refund?Problem solved......
 
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