QSP kings of the budget realm

Londinium Armoury said:
Are you making that decision purely basede on where the knives are made? or on what is the better knife.
Have you handled and used both knives?
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I have handled both knives. I don't own either mainly because I have drifted away from both liner locks/frame locks and knives in that price category regardless of brand. But that isn't the issue. There is something called "pride of ownership", which matters more to some people than others. Ontario has been making knives since 1899. QSP started their own label in 2017. As to where they are made, that's a whole 'nother issue that has any relevance only to folks who keep up with current events and geopolitics. Additionally I have concluded that knives made where the QSP is has a higher rate of "steel issues" (poor HT, steel not being exactly what was represented) than where the Ontario Rat is made. So, if I had a choice of an Ontario or QSP, my choice is the former. I trust this answers your question.
 
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KenHash said:
I have handled both knives. I don't own either mainly because I have drifted away from both liner locks/frame locks and knives in that price category. But that isn't the issue. There is something called "pride of ownership", which matters more to some people than others. Ontario has been making knives since 1899. QSP started their own label in 2017. As to where they are made, that's a whole 'nother issue that has any relevance only to folks who keep up with current events and geopolitics. So, if I had an choice of an Ontario or QSP my choice is the former.
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That's fine if you are judging knife models based on politics, I was more hoping you would compare the knives based on how they function as folding knives. I understand pride of ownership, I feel very proud to own a Sebenza 21, and even prouder to use a knife I forged myself.
I also understand buying based on personal morals, I personally would never buy a Strider for this very reason. But I on the other hand am still capable of comparing a Strider knife Vs another knife if you put both of them in my hands. I would admit if the Strider is the better knife if I thought it was better, even though I wouldn't buy it personally because of other motives, I would still be able to compare the knives honestly without letting my personal opinions skew my judgement.
 
Londinium Armoury said:
That's fine if you are judging knife models based on politics, I was more hoping you would compare the knives based on how they function as folding knives. I understand pride of ownership, I feel very proud to own a Sebenza 21, and even prouder to use a knife I forged myself.
I also understand buying based on personal morals, I personally would never buy a Strider for this very reason. But I on the other hand am still capable of comparing a Strider knife Vs another knife if you put both of them in my hands. I would admit if the Strider is the better knife if I thought it was better, even though I wouldn't buy it personally because of other motives, I would still be able to compare the knives honestly without letting my personal opinions skew my judgement.
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As knife enthusiasts we tend to spend an awful amount of time debating whether Knife A is "better" than Knife B. In truth nearly all knives that come out of legitimate makers all perform as they were designed to do. Much of the debate is really just a matter of personal preference in matters ranging from steel types, materials, design, price, etc etc. so that what's "better" in a specific price category of knives, depends on each individual.
I am certain that I did not put down the QSP in any matter pertaining to design, function or durability. I am sure it would perform what it was designed to do satisfactorily, as would most knives that are in production. And of course that includes the Ontario.
As I said, if I had a price constraint, I would choose the Ontario over the QSP. Fortunately you can appreciate the value of "pride of ownership".
 
Londinium Armoury said:
I don't think such a basic tool as a knife needs to be innovative, it just needs to function well and have good build quality. Innovation and reinventing the wheel isn't always a good idea either. Lots of fantasy knives are innovative, I wouldn't buy one though, would much rather have a plain drop point.

The QSP copperhead is actually quite a remarkable knife for only £50.
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To be “king of the budget knife realm”, QSP would have to do something better or different than the competition. One of those better or different things would be design innovative. As we both seem to agree that QSP is not innovative, there’s nothing left to separate them from the flood of value knives. The quality/value of QSP is not better than CIVIVI, Tangram, CJRB and others.

By what merit then does QSP wear the crown?
 
KenHash said:
As knife enthusiasts we tend to spend an awful amount of time debating whether Knife A is "better" than Knife B. In truth nearly all knives that come out of legitimate makers all perform as they were designed to do. Much of the debate is really just a matter of personal preference in matters ranging from steel types, materials, design, price, etc etc. so that what's "better" in a specific price category of knives, depends on each individual.
I am certain that I did not put down the QSP in any matter pertaining to design, function or durability. I am sure it would perform what it was designed to do satisfactorily, as would most knives that are in production. And of course that includes the Ontario.
As I said, if I had a price constraint, I would choose the Ontario over the QSP. Fortunately you can appreciate the value of "pride of ownership".
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When I say a knife is better some of it is subject to personal preference, some is subject to quality of materials and functionality. When I say the QSP Copperhead is better than the RAT 1, it's mainly due to a few deciding factors, the QSP copperhead has higher quality handle material (in my opinion G10 is higher quality than FRN) Also the heat treatment of QSP's 14C28N is done better than Ontarios D2. I have found that Ontarios D2 is not heat treated as well as most other D2 knives I own, it is noticable in use that it's too soft and not up to par with what D2 is optimal or capable of at higher HRC. QSP's 14C28N holds an edge longer than Ontario's D2 and it is just as easy to hone and sharpen up. The grain structure and edge stability also seems to be superior.
The action is also smoother on the QSP Copperhead than the RAT 1, not by a small amount either, it's completely drop shutting freefall smooth, with zero play. Sure you can prefer a softer steel, with less edge retention, you can prefer FRN over G10, you can Prefer less smooth action I guess. But those aren't entirely subjective things they are quantifiable differences. I'd be shocked to hear somebody who prefers less edge retention, or a worse performing steel, especially when comparing it to another steel that performs better and is no harder to touch up the edges.
 
Hackenslash said:
To be “king of the budget knife realm”, QSP would have to do something better or different than the competition. One of those better or different things would be design innovative. As we both seem to agree that QSP is not innovative, there’s nothing left to separate them from the flood of value knives. The quality/value of QSP is not better than CIVIVI, Tangram, CJRB and others.

By what merit then does QSP wear the crown?
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Civivi are also another contender for best budget knives, I would rank them above Ontario folders as well. Out of all of the budget knives I have handled I see the QSP Copperhead and Real Steel E775 Griffin as the best quality in the £50.00 range. Out of those 2 I think the Copperhead slightly beats the Griffin.
I don't own any CJRB knives, and only one Civivi Trailblazer.
 
Londinium Armoury said:
When I say a knife is better some of it is subject to personal preference, some is subject to quality of materials and functionality. When I say the QSP Copperhead is better than the RAT 1, it's mainly due to a few deciding factors, the QSP copperhead has higher quality handle material (in my opinion G10 is higher quality than FRN) Also the heat treatment of QSP's 14C28N is done better than Ontarios D2. I have found that Ontarios D2 is not heat treated as well as most other D2 knives I own, it is noticable in use that it's too soft and not up to par with what D2 is optimal or capable of at higher HRC. QSP's 14C28N holds an edge longer than Ontario's D2 and it is just as easy to hone and sharpen up. The grain structure and edge stability also seems to be superior.
The action is also smoother on the QSP Copperhead than the RAT 1, not by a small amount either, it's completely drop shutting freefall smooth, with zero play. Sure you can prefer a softer steel, with less edge retention, you can prefer FRN over G10, you can Prefer less smooth action I guess. But those aren't entirely subjective things they are quantifiable differences. I'd be shocked to hear somebody who prefers less edge retention, or a worse performing steel, especially when comparing it to another steel that performs better and is no harder to touch up the edges.
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OK, so your personal preference is for the QSP. That's fine, enjoy it. No offense but I'm not the person be talking to about who has a better HT or grain structures with knives in this price category.
 
KenHash said:
OK, so your personal preference is for the QSP. That's fine, enjoy it. No offense but I'm not the person be talking to about who has a better HT or grain structures with knives in this price category.
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I enjoy both, I like my Rat 1 and my QSP Copperhead, they are both great knives, I just think the QSP is better, if I give the RAT 1 a 7 out of ten, I'd give the QSP an 8 out of 10. Just out performs it in a few areas.
 
Londinium Armoury said:
I enjoy both, I like my Rat 1 and my QSP Copperhead, they are both great knives, I just think the QSP is better, if I give the RAT 1 a 7 out of ten, I'd give the QSP an 8 out of 10. Just out performs it in a few areas.
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Exactly, you think the QSP is better. And that's fine. Enjoy.
 
Londinium Armoury said:
Not in the UK, they are roughly the same price, both around £50.
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Well, this forum is located in the US and populated mostly with US members. When starting a discussion, it is important to consider your audience. I'm sorry that prices for you are so much worse but that doesn't change the reality that for most members here the knives in question are not in the same price category. The RAT 1 is about half the price of the QSP. You cannot claim one is the budget king, and killer of the other, if that knife costs twice as much as the other. They aren't comparable.

Londinium Armoury said:
It has better action than lots of knives in the 200 range
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Lots? Before you said "most". Those are two very different things. Which one do you mean? The language we use is important when discussing things.

Londinium Armoury said:
Yeah just like there's a Sea of US made frame locks, some are better than others, and this QSP Copperhead is better than a lot of knives.
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The sea of US made framelocks is tiny compared to the sea of budget Chinese knives like the QSP. Misrepresenting the situation doesn't help prove your point.

Thinking this knife is just the best budget knife ever and liking it whole bunch is just fine. You have every right to your opinion and how you feel. There is no need to convince anyone else! But if you try, better come with a more solid argument than this. In fact, the entire premise of this thread is not accurate.
 
craytab said:
Well, this forum is located in the US and populated mostly with US members. When starting a discussion, it is important to consider your audience. I'm sorry that prices for you are so much worse but that doesn't change the reality that for most members here the knives in question are not in the same price category. The RAT 1 is about half the price of the QSP. You cannot claim one is the budget king, and killer of the other, if that knife costs twice as much as the other. They aren't comparable.


Lots? Before you said "most". Those are two very different things. Which one do you mean? The language we use is important when discussing things.


The sea of US made framelocks is tiny compared to the sea of budget Chinese knives like the QSP. Misrepresenting the situation doesn't help prove your point.

Thinking this knife is just the best budget knife ever and liking it whole bunch is just fine. You have every right to your opinion and how you feel. There is no need to convince anyone else! But if you try, better come with a more solid argument than this. In fact, the entire premise of this thread is not accurate.
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I just checked BladeHQ prices and it seems the RAT1 in D2 is going for $40.00 and the QSP copperhead is going for $55.00 that puts them in the same price range to me. a 55 dollar knife and a 40 dollar knife can be compared. The price seems fair comparison to me, I think many people would agree a 40 knife and 55 knife are in the same catagory, what's 15 dollars difference, people here spend more than that on pocket clips.

When I said most, I'm refering to knives in my collection, in that price range, which are mostly Spyderco, Benchmade, Hogue and Fox knives in that price range. I still stand by that statement the QSP Copperhead has better action than many knives costing tripple it's price or more.

I can't convince anybody which is the best knife, they would have to get them in hand and make up their own minds. I'm just saying QSP are under rated and very well could make some of the best quality low priced knives on the market. I haven't handled all of the knives on the market to make a difinitive claim, but none of us here have handled every single knife in the world, we can only judge things based on sample sizes. I've handled hundreds of folders and own a decent amount, and my opinion is that QSP make great low cost knives. I will say the same about Opinel and Mora when it comes to fixed blades and traditionals. I believe Mora are the kings of Budget fixed blades. That's my opinion and my rating, and it's based on personal experience, something words can't change.
 

Here's the action on my QSP copperhead, and I stand by my statement that it has better action than many knives in the 150-200 price range. For a £55.00 knife this is superb action. Also this action is with zero blade play in any direction, not a single wiggle or hint of play.
 
There are 37 posts in this thread...20 are from the OP...just saying.

I wouldn’t buy either of these knives. Just my taste. If we are comparing knives with a $15 difference...SAK’s are king of the budget knives. Haha. Maybe not king...but definite royalty.
 
Londinium Armoury said:
I just checked BladeHQ prices and it seems the RAT1 in D2 is going for $40.00 and the QSP copperhead is going for $55.00 that puts them in the same price range to me. a 55 dollar knife and a 40 dollar knife can be compared. The price seems fair comparison to me, I think many people would agree a 40 knife and 55 knife are in the same catagory, what's 15 dollars difference, people here spend more than that on pocket clips.

When I said most, I'm refering to knives in my collection, in that price range, which are mostly Spyderco, Benchmade, Hogue and Fox knives in that price range. I still stand by that statement the QSP Copperhead has better action than many knives costing tripple it's price or more.

I can't convince anybody which is the best knife, they would have to get them in hand and make up their own minds. I'm just saying QSP are under rated and very well could make some of the best quality low priced knives on the market. I haven't handled all of the knives on the market to make a difinitive claim, but none of us here have handled every single knife in the world, we can only judge things based on sample sizes. I've handled hundreds of folders and own a decent amount, and my opinion is that QSP make great low cost knives. I will say the same about Opinel and Mora when it comes to fixed blades and traditionals. I believe Mora are the kings of Budget fixed blades. That's my opinion and my rating, and it's based on personal experience, something words can't change.
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You enjoy moving the goal posts and denying what most everyone else can see. This isn't a discussion. I'll have no further part in it.

One last thing. You can't even carry either knife, right? I know I know, for work. :rolleyes: Definitely not for knife fighting on the mean streets of London.... :p:D

Have a happy Easter! :)
 
Sharp & Fiery said:
There are 37 posts in this thread...20 are from the OP...just saying.

I wouldn’t buy either of these knives. Just my taste. If we are comparing knives with a $15 difference...SAK’s are king of the budget knives. Haha. Maybe not king...but definite royalty.
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SAKs are not bad, I prefer Bokers and older sheffield knives when it comes to slip joints. Not really a fan of that guady red plastic.
 
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