Quality control and what is acceptable with production knives

"I don't get all the philosophical and mathematical perspectives. That knife ain't right. Send it back and ask for an inspected exchange or a refund."

There are two issues here -

The specific knife (knives - remember, both had similar problems, one worse than the other) - simple - it needs to be returned and replaced, or refunded. End of story (this is now so clear from all the posts, but when I saw the thing yesterday, first time out of the box, I was so shocked, I thought maybe I was expecting too much. Obviously, I wasn't.

But there is also the broader issue, which some may say is a but which WILL effect each and every one of us, sooner or later - just how often do these "Screw ups" happen, in a product line, or in a company?

Hopefully it's an exception and "shit happens"

But what if there is someone on the production line who just doesn't care?

Or a whole batch of CF scales came in from the sub-contractor with sub-standard binder? or CF sheets?

What if the buyer has a different expectation of what constitutes "acceptable" from Sal Glesser? Or Loveless?

That's where the math and philosophy comes in...
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All needless drama. If you weren't happy you could have just sent your knives back for replacement or refund if you weren't happy. Is dragging Spyderco through the mud for this really necessessary?

Every time I see one of these dog pile threads over a visual flaw on an inexpensive ( yes, I say dirt cheap for a ZDP/CF knife like that) Ijust ask myself why?

You are acting like you have a vendetta now. Look at all your speeches. We knew what you meant in the original post.

and, just because no one has said it definitively yet, "it must be the heat treat!" :(
 
Um...Are you talking to me?

:-)

"If you weren't happy you could have just sent your knives back for replacement or refund if you weren't happy."

It bothered me, but I wasn't sure if I was expecting too much, since I haven't bought any new CF in some time. And as you say, the price is "dirt cheap for a ZDP/CF knife like that" So actually, I was trying to get a reality check.

If I was so damned sure of myself, like you seem to be, I wouldn't have felt the need to ask. (and yes, I did send an email to the dealer asking his opinion, and whether I should be expecting a refund or exchange. No word back yet.)

"Is dragging Spyderco through the mud for this really necessessary? "

Who's dragging Spyderco through the mud? Where in ANY of my "speeches" have I laid claim, or tried to conclude, anything about Spyderco?

Or are you saying the condition of that piece is okay for a new, first run piece, and that I am just a whiner? That would be okay too, and that's the sort of feedback I was looking for in my OP. But you seem to want to take a swipe at what you perceive to be a vendetta...so, are you a "Spyderco fan-boy?"

:-)


"Every time I see one of these dog pile threads over a visual flaw on an inexpensive ( yes, I say dirt cheap for a ZDP/CF knife like that) Ijust ask myself why? "

I agree it is pretty reasonably priced for ZDP / CF FROM A MAJOR BRAND NAME. But is that justification for this sort of flaw, visual or otherwise? Cheap is okay excuse to have lax quality? So when does something become a POS? I'm not following your point.

Someone else wiser than I already pointed out the point that, why the hell do we buy CF EXCEPT for the visuals? If it was for "usability" we'd just get G-10, grivory, or hell, even Zytel. Do you disagree?

But you know what? Just by having to respond to you, seems to make me seem like I "have a vendetta" against Spyderco. hmmmm...maybe I shouldn't respond to you.

:-)

"You are acting like you have a vendetta now. Look at all your speeches. We knew what you meant in the original post."

Yeah, I guess I should just write in short sentences and keep my posts to less than 5 sentences. Sorry about that, just trying to have some conversation. My bad.

"and, just because no one has said it definitively yet, "it must be the heat treat!" '

:-)

Anyway, it's all good...
 
Hey, Dorito Monk,

Spyde QC - Thanks, I see what you mean. Live and learn. Just in case anyone else is reading this, I wasn't looking to slam Spyderco, originally, I was just trying to get some opinions

1. if what I got was a serious enough issue to go to the trouble of returning it

2. if it is a common problem with this model, in which case I have to decide if I like it enough to keep it despite the flaw, since any replacement might have a high probability of having similar flaws (again, WITHOUT drawing any conclusions or generalizations beyond this specific model line about Spyderco. I did mention, also in this thread, I find the Gayle Bradley pretty incredible, so obviously ? I don't have a problem with Spyderco across the board.)

3. Was I being too anal? (again, I haven't purchased any CF lately, and CF technology back 10, 15 years ago was quite a bit different. So was this a state of the art problem, or a cheap or careless QC problem?)

about contacting the dealer - I did email him, and sent him the pictures too, at the same time I made the OP. And no knives drawn, I wasn't out for blood, I just asked him if this was common, so should I expect any replacement to have similar problems, in which case I would either get a refund or just live with it if I liked it enough. Or can I reasonably expect the replacements to be "better" and worth the hassle to replace (vs refund, or keep and not even bother shipping back)

No word yet.

Oops, there I go making speeches again...

:-)
 
Damfan, I personally don't think you are too anal. If you aren't happy just send it back.

why the hell do we buy CF EXCEPT for the visuals?
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I'm the opposite. I buy nothing for visuals. If I did it would be wood, bone, or stag. CF is strictly high strength, low weight. Look has nothing to do with it, In my opinion and I stress opinion.

I don't care if it looks like a dog bone, as long as it performs the way it's designed to. I won't buy pink though, I have to admit. :)

so, are you a "Spyderco fan-boy?"
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Sure. Since 1992. I also like Kershaw, Buck, Fehrman, and a few others, but I mostly carry Spyderco and Kershaw EDC's.

Anyways, Do what you need to do to make it a good experience in knife ownership. I just questioned if all this was really necessessary. You know how hard Spyderco works to put the best, and most innovative knives for the price out they can. Who brought us ZDP? How about the Mule team? I can go on, but that's not necessary.

If Sal looks up bladeforums and every day there's a new 3 page thread talking about tiny visual defects with superb close up photos, and spyderco termites who always appear with such posts how long do you really think you will have access to Sal, and his input, support and everything else that comes with having access to the companies CEO ?


Just too much drama for me I guess. If it was me I'd either deal with the problem, or keep the knife and start slicing. That knife happens to be very good at that, have you noticed?
 
I've never had a problem with the fit and finish (or performance) with any of my Spyderco's.

I understand that this is a production folder but if it were me I would without a doubt send it back. I get the fact that you cannot expect perfection but when I spend well over a hundred for a folder (from ANY company) I'd like it to look like the one they show in their catalog or on their website (no better no worse).
Best of luck with your knife.
 
It seems that spyderco's manufacturer had a hard time with these, but there is one thing on this knife that bothers me and thats that with such an obvious flaw, I mean we're not --talking an off-centered blade or grind here, how could any human eye see that and think it was ok? I highly doubt it left the factory like that.

These aren't all machine assembled with fully automated processes, they are probably put together by hand, just like every other knife manufacturer does. That would have been extremely hard to miss. CF is a PITA to drill espescially into a cross weave without much material to the edge so the flaw isn't surprising, but its no subtle little thing.

I'd think your problem would be more with the dealer, but even then its a holiday weekend, too many people seem to get too easily worked up about this stuff.
 
I can understand the venting of the OP. He rightly expects good value, however he may see it, for his money and doesn't feel he got it. Fine: venting here may be therapeutic, but the ones that want a satisfied customer is Spyderco and a lot of folk will vouch for that.

Alert CS of your problem or Sal himself. I'll bet that they'll do their utmost to try to satisfy the OP.
 
Mastiff,

"That knife happens to be very good at that, have you noticed? "

No, the darned carbon fiber isn't honed too well, don't you see the chipped edges?

:-)

Seriously, thanks for the change in tone.

I agree.

I wasn't trying to bash Spyderco.

I wasn't trying to draw generalized conclusions.

I was trying to be polite in answering those who took the time to reply to my post.

I actually wanted to post the pics on the Spyderco forum first. I wanted to ask directly to those who set the specs if that was considered "in spec"

I couldn't; I had just signed up, and I guess it takes admin approval to allow new regs to post.

So I posted here, to ask for opinions.

I'm confident things will be resolved.

(see? I can learn to. I've kept my sentences short.

Now if only I can keep the sentence count low.

:-) )
 
Pardon OT.
Mastiff, I've lost your email and can't PM you either.
Could you please email me?
 
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