Queen and GEC

[jrawk]

The workmanship is not the same quality. The Northfields are considered to be finished better. The better materials, worked bolsters, mirror polished blades, etc. are all considered a higher level of finish. They function the same, and have the same fit, but the finish is most definitely different. When we evaluate the quality of a slipjoint it's not uncommon to speak of fit and finish. Tidioutes will never be equivalent to Northfields in this standard because the Northfields, by definition, have a higher level of finish and therefore are of a higher quality. You can sugar coat it all you want, but they're not the same. It's funny that nobody is arguing that the Farm & Field is equivalent to the Tidioutes even though those two lines are just as similar as the Tidioutes are to the Northfields.

Cory, I think we are saying the same thing but identifying a difference in our own personal definition of the word "quality". I would revise your statement to say:

"The workmanship is not the same quality quantity. The Northfields are considered to be finished better have additional ornate features that take more production time to complete. The better materials, worked bolsters, mirror polished blades, etc. are all considered a higher level of finish a higher degree of craftsmanship. They function the same, and have the same fit, but visually the finish is most definitely different.

That's just the way I see the differences between the two GEC lines.

 

[Cory Hess]

I have two 83 lock backs next to me as I write, a Tidioute in Sage Bone and a Northfield in Sambar Stag. They open and close the same, their level of fit is the same as is the finish. The difference in my perception, is that the Northfield has a long pull and swedge (swage) and ringed bolsters.

The differences that you mention are the finish of the knife. The Northfield has little touches that are left off of the Tidioute. The Northfield 83s also have etched blades, the Tidioutes do not. This is what I refer to as the finish part of fit and finish or F&F. The opening and closing being the same is part of the fit of the knife, as are things like the transitions between the frame, bolsters, covers, and springs. These are the same between GEC lines. Thus, the fit is the same between their lines, but the finish definitely is not. When you say that the finish is the same, what aspects are you talking about and how do you differentiate between fit and finish?

It's an appearance /style thing to me at least.

This I agree with. However, the Northfields are definitely marketed as having more styling and a better appearance than the Tidioute line. To say that their finish is the same because their fit is the same is incorrect, in my opinion. It's purely aesthetic but that doesn't mean that it should be disregarded, especially when specifically speaking about the differences in the lines.

 

[choombak]

Actually, I've seen liner gaps more often on Tidioute than on Northfield, thus making me believe the fit and finish are both different. Functionality isn't factored, else why would someone pay $70 for a boy's knife, and $170 for TC Barlow!

 

[Buzzbait]

I'd argue that the long pulls often found exclusively on the Northfields is a definite functional improvement.

 

[cbr1000]

Actually, I've seen liner gaps more often on Tidioute than on Northfield, thus making me believe the fit and finish are both different. Functionality isn't factored, else why would someone pay $70 for a boy's knife, and $170 for TC Barlow!

TC barlows are Tidioute

TC = Tidioute Cutlery

I've had the least problems with my TC's.

 

[jrawk]

I'd argue that the long pulls often found exclusively on the Northfields is a definite functional improvement.

long pulls are not exclussive to northfields.

 

[cbr1000]

You have it mostly right. Queen makes Queen, S&M, and Tuna Valley knives. GEC makes Farm and Field, GEC, Tidioute, and Northfield. They both make knives as special orders for many different labels such as Robeson and Northwoods and many others.

The Queen line is Queen's basic line and mostly uses D2 steel. S&M is their higher end line and they use many different steels. Tuna Valley is their top of the line, and they mostly use 154. Tidioute is GEC's basic line and it uses 1095 steel. Their Farm and Field line is their worker line, and it also uses 1095 steel. Their Northfield line is their top end line, and it also uses 1095. The GEC line is their stainless line and it uses 440C.

Bill Howard used to run the Queen factory. He left that job to start GEC with a business partner named Ken Daniels. After a couple of years Bill bought Ken out of GEC, and Ken subsequently bought Queen. So, the owner of GEC used to work at Queen and the owner of Queen used to own GEC.

Thank you for your post. Deserves a bump :thumbup:

 

[Railsplitter]

TC barlows are Tidioute

TC = Tidioute Cutlery

I've had the least problems with my TC's.

Your first statement is correct but I've always thought the TC stood for Tom's Choice, as in Tom Sawyer. Their counterpart, the #15 Boy's Knives were originally called the Huckleberry Boy's Knife as in Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn.

 

[Will Power]

I'd argue that the long pulls often found exclusively on the Northfields is a definite functional improvement.

I can't agree here I'm afraid, on a very heavily sprung knife, a long pull placed far back behind a swedge can make it a lot more difficult to open than a nail nick towards the point of a knife.

i certainly do like the look of a long pull mind.

 

[KBA]

I can't agree here I'm afraid, on a very heavily sprung knife, a long pull placed far back behind a swedge can make it a lot more difficult to open than a nail nick towards the point of a knife.

i certainly do like the look of a long pull mind.

Agreed. I prefer LPs but not only the 73 for example. The LP is just an aesthetic feature imo and doesn't always help, especially if you use your knife.

 

[Will Power]

Cory Hard for me to explain, finish is not additional ornamentation to me (that's aesthetics which is subjective)but how the knife is turned out in terms of quality. The scales are well radiused, shield inlet, pin finish, feel of the knife in hand. Quality of finish is the same on these lines but aesthetic ornamentation/distinguishing detail is not.

Also, GEC did away with UN*XLD shields on Stag knives as a policy change, I don't regard that step as indicative of higher finish or premium pretensions.

Thanks, Will

 

[Cory Hess]

Will, thanks for the clarification. I think that our disagreement is mostly a semantic one. The things that you list are what I'd classify as fit and you term finish. I'd agree that all of the things that you mention are similar between the two lines.

 

[Will Power]

Cory You are absolutely right!

Thanks, Will

 

[cbr1000]

Your first statement is correct but I've always thought the TC stood for Tom's Choice, as in Tom Sawyer. Their counterpart, the #15 Boy's Knives were originally called the Huckleberry Boy's Knife as in Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn.

Tom's Choice was Charlie's play with wording for the Tidioute Cutlery barlow (TC). I guess it would be like Mike calling the North Field Barlow (NF) Neighborly Folks, Ned's Friend, Need Food............

 

[cbr1000]

I have a question about SM line. If I recall correctly, isn't there subcategories of the SM line.. file and wire, keystone, maybe others I don't recall off the top of my head. This has always confused me.

If I understand correctly, SM is better quality build over the regular queen line? Is there a build quality difference in the subcategories of the SM line? Is there a good, better, best in the SM line. I don't understand if keystone is a step up, down, or no different than file and wire (if that's what it's called - sorry, not very familiar with them so I might have these names wrong).

Thank you

 

[Railsplitter]

Tom's Choice was Charlie's play with wording for the Tidioute Cutlery barlow (TC). I guess it would be like Mike calling the North Field Barlow (NF) Neighborly Folks, Ned's Friend, Need Food............

I see. Thank you for the clarification.

 

[Locutus D'Borg]

I think Fire Wire is best quality of SM line.

I have a question about SM line. If I recall correctly, isn't there subcategories of the SM line.. file and wire, keystone, maybe others I don't recall off the top of my head. This has always confused me.

If I understand correctly, SM is better quality build over the regular queen line? Is there a build quality difference in the subcategories of the SM line? Is there a good, better, best in the SM line. I don't understand if keystone is a step up, down, or no different than file and wire (if that's what it's called - sorry, not very familiar with them so I might have these names wrong).

Thank you

 

[cbr1000]

I think Fire Wire is best quality of SM line.

Okay, so from good to best build quality..?

Queen, SM keystone, SM File & Wire, Tuna Valley?

Doesn't queen have a bunch of subcategories too? Like Heritage series or something? This is one of the reasons I've never bought a Queen knife. Not the only reason, but one of them. I've looked at them online, but they have so many different series I end up loosing interest and don't pull the trigger. Used to be you could go to a knife shop and look at the product you were buying to get a feel for build quality. Now a days everything is online and it's tough to sort out.

Awhile back when I was trying to sort it out, I ran across some GEC made Tuna Valley images online and that threw me off...

 

[supratentorial]

For the OP and other new collectors, I would just use the brand as one of the many indicators of who made what. It is actually not a very good indicator, especially for old knives--there are lots of fakes of old knives. You will benefit much more from watching the factory tours and learning about the manufacturing instead of paying much attention to the marketing. There are tours for GEC, Queen and Case (as well as many others) on Youtube. Understanding how the knives are made will help you "read the knife". The knife tells the true story. Understanding how the knives are made will also help you understand quality.

 

[Rookie82]

Technically, the Tuna Valley is not a Queen brand. It is a Daniels Family owned brand, that happens to be made by Queen (right now). If the Daniels left Queen, the Tuna's could be made by another maker. That is why the Tuna Valley knives were originaly made at GEC, then moved when the Daniels moved.