Queen D2

My queens have an obtuse edge but are sharp. An obtuse edge may not shave hair, but it won't chip when someone cuts cheese on a plate. If an edge is too thin, you can't make it thicker, however the converse is true. If the edge is thick, you can thin it to the way you want it. That's why Queens are sharp but thick. If the edge is sharp and thick, the knife-abuser won't ruin the blade as easy and the knife-nut can put on the edge they want.

Paraglock, case, cammilus, schrade, agrussell, boker, parker all make/made slipjoints that have thinner edges, but none makes the variety of patterns nor with the fit and finish of Queen/S&M. That's why you should take the time to put your own edge on 'em :)
 
Sorry, I don't buy it.

Every single Case I've gotten has been shaving sharp out of the box. So have the German brands (Boker, Eye, Bulldog)...

-- Sam

That's where our experience differs. While most of my Case knives have come with a decently sharp edge, I've never had a Bulldog knife that came with or held a good edge. Every one I've had has been a disappointment to the extent that they were either returned or given away. I've even had some friends who are well known makers and purveyors examine them and pronounce the same conclusion. (I understand that knives will vary and there may be a bad one or bad heat treat here and there but I am talking about several knives over a period of a few years. Go figure.)
 
Sorry, I don't buy it.

Every single Case I've gotten has been shaving sharp out of the box. So have the German brands (Boker, Eye, Bulldog).


-- Sam

Hmm, Interesting. I've got dozens of German models, Bulldogs, Weidmannsheil, Eye... and none of them have come shaving sharp. All have working edges. Most of the Queen D2s have been sharper. Of course these are all fairly new within the last few years.

Eric.
 
I have one knife in D2, a Queen Country Cousin sodbuster. It has made me a little biased against D2. First it did come dull. Okay, I understand some factory edges leave a little to be desired, but I mean REALLY dull. I spent quite a while with diamond hones getting it sharp. It did get sharp.

But- While it held an edge very, very, well, it was a sob to resharpen in a hurry with the little diamond hone I carry in my wallet. This is my choke point with D2.

I like edge holding, but not at the expence of moderate easy resharpening. Its a knife, and all knives need to be sharpened once in a while. I will gladly carry a knife that has good edge holding and is fast and easy to touch up, over a knife that has great edge holding, but is a bear to sharpen. Especially if the edge gets damaged like breaking down a box and you hit one of those copper staples you did not see. And sometimes a knife can start getting dull out someplace away from home, and I want to be able to touch it up fast with the wallet hone. I don't want to have to sit down and make a project out of it. Maybe thats why I like knives like Opinels, Douk-Douks, Case CV, and Klass brown mules.

I think there is a point of diminishing return in alot of things. Just like theres alot of ways to hop up an engine to get more speed, but you may sacrafice some reliability. To get better than average edge holding you have to sacrafice something like ease of resharpening. I don't want to make that sacrafice at this stage of my life. Steel junkies are welcome to the super edge holding stuff, I just want plain 1095 or CV. I'll take true sharp if it's in a pretty package!;)
 
jackknife,

There's a lot of truth in what you say but I find that once I have a knife sharp, it's generally pretty easy to keep it sharp with a minimum of fuss. (Of course there will be exceptions.)

That said, I'm a big fan of carbon steel blades in my slipjoints but also find a good tool steel (A2, D2, M2 by way of example) very worthwhile as well.
 
There's nothing wrong with 1095 when it's been properly heat treated, but I could NEVER happily own either a Tru Sharp or "Stainless" blade... isn't Surgical Stainless the stuff on those 3 for $5 CCCs at the gunshow?

One of the things that I like about D2 is that it IS D2- I know what the steel is, I know its properties, I know how it works, what is does well, and what is doesn't. What is Tru Sharp? I know that it relatively soft (55-57Rc I think), and easy to sharpen, but then again, so is mild steel. What about the other folders in "Stainless?" I don't even have an RC value here, a list of properties, or even a name.

Then there comes 420HC, 440A, and 440B, all of which I know about, but none of which really satisfy me with their edge holding abilities.

I've got no problem with a nice stainless steel, but "Tru Sharp," "Stainless," etc. don't cut it for me. I'd rather have a blade that's a you-know-what to sharpen, than a blade that I don't know anything about (other than its alleged chromium content).

D2 actually isn't all that bad if you take your time and sharpen it once or twice a week, and it doesn't take THAT long to sharpen when you're chilling at home.

Edit- Blues, where are you finding folders in A2 and M2? Are they all customs?
 
Peyton,

I was just referring to those tool steels in general (from personal experience) though I don't own any slipjoints in A2 or M2. (I know from speaking with Tony Bose that he will use A2 if requested.)
 
Last night I reprofiled a factory edge on a new Queen Cocobolo D2 #44 I just got to 30 degrees using the coarse stone from the Lansky sharpening system.

I did it right after dinner at the table and my wife didn't complain about the time, so it couldn't have been that long :) 15-20min or so. If I had used my belt sander, it would have been a lot faster, though not as accurate angle-wise.

Then I used the 20 swipes on each Sharpmaker stick method and it shaves arm hair just fine.

Sure, it could be sharper if I put more time into it. And keeping it touched up shouldn't take much time.

Eric.
 
I have a queen canoe in d2, it came somewhat dull out of the box, and was a real bitch to get sharp the way I like them. Then I bought a queen canoe in 1095 , it was almost shaving sharp and it only took a few minutes on the sharpmaker to make it super shaving sharp. needless to say, I much prefer the 1095.
 
I have a queen canoe in d2, it came somewhat dull out of the box, and was a real bitch to get sharp the way I like them. Then I bought a queen canoe in 1095 , it was almost shaving sharp and it only took a few minutes on the sharpmaker to make it super shaving sharp. needless to say, I much prefer the 1095.
Yes, I meant to make this distinction: Most of the Queen knives I've gotten in other steels have been usable out of the box. It's only the D2 (and some ATS-34 S&M) folders that I've had issues with.

I guess I'm just not enough of a steel snob. While I might prefer something a little fancier than Tru-Sharp it has never failed to cut what I want to cut. I do prefer CV/1095, but it's not available in all patterns.

Dull is dull. You can put a 45 degree bevel on something and still make it sharp. Arguing that "they did it that way for your own good" sounds like making excuses to me.

I'll even concede that having to sharpen a new knife isn't that big a deal. Having to completely reprofile (or "initially profile", as the case may be) is beyond the pale.

Luckily, there are a lot of knives for a lot of different individual tastes out there.

-- Sam
 
In my admittedly limited experience (not more than 200 of my knives were purchased new) Case knives seem to come with a wire edge, or aligned burr if you prefer to call it that. They may very well shave and slice paper out of the box, but a locust twig will trash the edge. I always have to do a little work on them before I trust them.

I have run into the same problem with other brands on occasion, but not as consistently as Case. I have run into other brands with cold chisel grinds that require a complete reprofile to get the edge where I want it. It really doesn't bother me to sharpen a knife out of the box (I usually sharpen Stanley utility knife blades before I use them). It's just the combination of a cold chisel edge and D2 steel makes it more effort than I generally have to put into a new knife.

It should be worth it in the end :D
 
I am a big fan of Queen, but I think they would be a premier knife company if they consistently put good edges on their product. I dont mind working up the edges -- I have become pretty good with a whetstone because of all the sharpening I have had to do with my Queens -- getting all three blades on a cherry delrin stockman appropriately sharp was brutal! However I think many expect a certain level of sharpness and geometry, especially given what other companies do with their factory blades.
 
Good Lord this forum is teaching me a lot!

Jackknife's post really hit a nerve with me (no pun intended, as my profession is anesthesiology).
I am all for a blance of strengh and sharpenability.

I just got an Opinel carbon #8 (so I can learn about carbon steels), and a stainless Mora #860.
They both exhibit surprising quality...and are inexpensive! And scary-sharp.

A Case CV is in the very near future...I just need to decide which one.
I was initially considering the Queen in D2, but my sharpening skills are solidly in the novice category...so, I may try it later when my skills are improved.

Any good sharpening/reprofiling books out there?
 
I just got an Opinel carbon #8 (so I can learn about carbon steels), and a stainless Mora #860.
They both exhibit surprising quality...and are inexpensive! And scary-sharp.

A very good example to ask why a knife costing many times more than these two should come semi-dull, or at least with a consitant level of sharpness.

Both of these knives are 10 dollar knives, but come out of the box very sharp and ready to use. And the stainless mora's can outcut many more expencive knives with very medium grade stainless steel. Theres alot more to a knife than the kind of steel, like good heat treat, profile, and that last finishing touch before shipping. Victorinox, the worlds largest maker of pocket knives with annual production of 35 million knives, sells a moderate price product with a run of the mill stainless steel, yet they are also razor sharp out of the box.

Buck is yet another example of a product delivered to the customer with a exellent cutting edge, and good preformance from 420hc. They have Paul Bos doing the heat treat, and they give you a nice thin edge. I used one of thier 301 stockmans for over 20 years and it gave great service under some very tough conditions in the army engineers.

Just food for thought.
 
Hmm, another disconnect.

I have many Opinels, well at least 12 of varying sizes, and none of them came scary sharp, or even shaving sharp.

Eric.
 
I've owned over a dozen Queen built knives, and currently have seven, one ATS34, one 440A or whatever they used in 1997, and the rest are D2. Only one was sharp out of the box, a congress which I have since traded away. The D2 knives were all uniformly dull, and ground at about 60 degrees included angle (30 degrees per side). I bought diamond hones to reform them, as I couldn't get there with anything in a reasonable time period. Once you get them sharp, they cut like there's no tommorrow for a LONG time without dulling. I buy Queens to get the exotic steels, aside from a Schatt & Morgan english jack which is 440A or 420HC. It was ground at that steep approximately 60 degree edge also. It would be nice to be sharpened to my standards out of the box, but I don't really care all that much, as I resharpen virtually every single knife that I buy, as NONE of them are satisfactory as made.
 
What is Tru Sharp? I know that it relatively soft (55-57Rc I think), and easy to sharpen, but then again, so is mild steel.

Then there comes 420HC, 440A, and 440B, all of which I know about, but none of which really satisfy me with their edge holding abilities.

I've got no problem with a nice stainless steel, but "Tru Sharp," "Stainless," etc. don't cut it for me. I'd rather have a blade that's a you-know-what to sharpen, than a blade that I don't know anything about (other than its alleged chromium content).

Isn't "Tru-Sharp" 420HC?

And I have to say, 57RC for a pocket knife is a pretty usable hardness -- a reasonable balance of edge holding and sharpenability for a blade that is used every day and sharpened with a pocket stone.

I have been using my stainless Case a bit harder than I used to, lately, and have been pleasantly surprised at how it has stood up to wood carving and such. Edge holding is fine, if you start with a sharp edge and maintain it.
 
Isn't "Tru-Sharp" 420HC?

And I have to say, 57RC for a pocket knife is a pretty usable hardness -- a reasonable balance of edge holding and sharpenability for a blade that is used every day and sharpened with a pocket stone.

I have been using my stainless Case a bit harder than I used to, lately, and have been pleasantly surprised at how it has stood up to wood carving and such. Edge holding is fine, if you start with a sharp edge and maintain it.

Thanks for the info on Tru-Sharp, I haven't seen anything on it other than "a high quality stainless."

I feel that 57RC is kind of soft for a pocket knife. I'm a wannabe steel snob, but 57 is closer to what I'd want for a fixed blade. I'm not going to be using my pocket knife as a prybar, or anything else that needs exceptional tougness. However, I will be using it around the house/job/etc., and it would be nice if it held an edge exceptionally well, especially considering that I'm short a sharpening system at the moment.

I may have to pick up a Case slippy and see if it'll rectify my past experiences with 420HC though...
 
i have ordered a lot of knives in the last 4 months, including 7 Queens in D2, with a total of 11 blades. none of the folders (including case, eye brand, S&M, boker, scagel, agrussell, & mm) arrived really sharp, or with equal edge bevels. there is no doubt that it is readily possible to put a consistent, equal, sensible, sharp edge bevel on every knife, utilizing either skilled craftsmen or high tech equipment. the company that first starts to do this and maintain excellence in fit and finish, will quickly garner much of the knife market.
the problem for so many of us is that despite being keeners, our knife sharpening skills are still on the early part of the learning curve, and i for one, am sure i take off more metal than necessary trying to perfect my re-profiled edge bevel. if they came properly bevelled, further sharpening would be easier to do properly.
really, we don't buy a new car with flat tires. there is no excuse.
roland
 
I know this has been hammered out plenty of times with a lot of thoughts and on-hand experience but I expect a sharp knife coming out of the box. The purpose of a knife is to cut or slice things, period. When I purchase my kitchen knives they are always sharp out of the box, why in the world wouldn't a brand new pocket knife come sharp out of the box ????

I understand we have different grades of what we call sharp and I will give company's a break when what they call sharp is not sharp in my opinion..We each have our own preferences..But when a knife comes out of the box so dull that you could walk on the blade etch and not get cut something is wrong. We are the market that today's knife makers are going after, an email or two never hurts to get your needs identified and if that does not change then taking my pocketbook somewhere else always will.

Just my opinion,

Sunburst
 
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