Question about a shotgun.

[Tiewas]

Ok I have a question a bout a shotgun. Now before I ask, I will say that I debated on whether or not to post this, since the shotgun in question may not be real.

I was reading a book and the author put in a shotgun made by the israeli's so he says, it's called a Felo. This shotgun shoots out razor sharp discs, in a group like buckshot. The book was written in the late 80's.

Anyway, the question is have any of you ever heard of such a thing, or do you think it's just something out of the authors imagination?

thanks.

 

[geothorn]

I've heard that if one is an experienced reloader of ammunition, and has a 10-gauge shotgun, a 10-gauge shotgun hull can be reloaded with about a third- or a half-roll of quarters (U.S. twenty-five cent pieces...), instead of normal shot or slugs.

I'm not sure of the pattern that'd result from such a reloaded shell, or of the "sharpened discs," but it seems close to the information that you're seeking.

GeoThorn

 

[a deadly fart]

Dont know the most bout amunition but are you refering to flechette rounds?

 

[geothorn]

Flechette rounds are usually shot from rifles, and they are small darts, two or three being fired simultaneously. Instead of one bullet leaving the rifle's barrel for each pull of the trigger (in semi-auto), two or three flechettes are fired for each trigger pull.

Basically, a flechette round in a standard caliber has either two or three flechette projectiles in the round, replacing the typical single bullet projectile rounds.

GeoThorn

 

[bugmenot]

completely real.
http://www.garysguns.com/exotic.htm scroll down to the flechette rounds. legal in US, not legal in Canada..

 

[SIFU1A]

I've heard that if one is an experienced reloader of ammunition, and has a 10-gauge shotgun, a 10-gauge shotgun hull can be reloaded with about a third- or a half-roll of quarters (U.S. twenty-five cent pieces...), instead of normal shot or slugs.

I'm not sure of the pattern that'd result from such a reloaded shell, or of the "sharpened discs," but it seems close to the information that you're seeking.

GeoThorn

in young guns or young guns 2 billy the kid shot a deputy with a 10 gauge loaded with dimes IIRC, but thats just the movies, someone tested a load like that and it didnt work well at all, maybe "mythbusters", or "wild west tech" on history channel, or, someone....?

i would stick with buckshot or slugs myself.

flechettes were used in viet -nam some, i have heard good/bad about them

i have never seen nor heard of a "felo" FWIW.

 

[mwerner]

The history channel's Wild West Tech did a segment on old West firearms, and examined the dimes-in-a-shotshell load. They loaded up a 12-guage shell with a stack of dimes, and fired it at a cardboard sillhouette target which had a typical Western leather vest over it.
None of the dimes even penetrated the cardboard. As soon as the stack leaves the muzzle, the dimes start tumbling, loosing all their energy to air resistance.

Hehe- Another myth, busted. Another dodge I've read about is to open the shotshell, and pour melted parrafin into the shot charge. Theoretically, this makes the shot stick together like a slug. Again, rather unlikely, though I haven't tried it. Certainly would be iffy in a hot climate! Also, melty parrafin might disable powder charge or primer after a bit.

 

[Flotsam]

I've heard of flechette rounds for shotguns - haven't ever heard of them used in rifles (although they may have been experimental). Not really worth the effort.

 

[mwerner]

Here's a Wikepedia article on same, apparently small-arms use has been rather iffy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flechette
I saw a segment on one of the science channels about contemporary battlefield medicine, and in the Balkans they were seeing a fair number of wounds from flechette projectiles. Even showed X-rays. However, I think these were artillery-delivered. The military physician noted that the little needle-shaped projectiles would sneak through most body armor.

 

[ABTOMAT-47]

Was this a Clive Cussler book?

 

[mwelch8404]

I've heard that if one is an experienced reloader of ammunition, and has a 10-gauge shotgun, a 10-gauge shotgun hull can be reloaded with about a third- or a half-roll of quarters (U.S. twenty-five cent pieces...), instead of normal shot or slugs.

I'm not sure of the pattern that'd result from such a reloaded shell, or of the "sharpened discs," but it seems close to the information that you're seeking.

GeoThorn

"...best roll of dimes I ever spent..."

 

[Tiewas]

Was this a Clive Cussler book?

Yeah, Vixen 03.

And he was very particular about the discs being sharpened. not flechette rounds at all. I was looking at the ammo page that bugmenot, posted. Those bolo rounds look fun.

Im thinking the shotgun could work providing the barrel was square land not round. I'd imagine it would act like a guide so that the discs wouldnt tumble much if at all and you could rifle the barrel a bit so that the discs would spin. Im thinking it wouldnt be very accurate but, probably would work real well at close ranges, like 5-10 yards.

 

[Andrew Taylor]

Hehe- Another myth, busted. Another dodge I've read about is to open the shotshell, and pour melted parrafin into the shot charge. Theoretically, this makes the shot stick together like a slug. Again, rather unlikely, though I haven't tried it. Certainly would be iffy in a hot climate! Also, melty parrafin might disable powder charge or primer after a bit.

I have opened up a 12 gauge cartridge in the days they were made of carboard. It contained number 6 shot, and I poured melted candle wax into the shot until it was filled. I let it cool and closed the top. When I fired it, there was a lot more recoil and firing at a card target, there was an uneven shot pattern around the edge, rather less on the margin, and a larger hole in the centre than normal. The barrel was pretty fouled, and I never though it was worth doing it again.

In the First World War, steel flechettes were dropped by German planes over the British trenches. They could penetrate a steel helmet.

 

[SIFU1A]

we used to cut a shotgun shell a little above the brass base almost but not thru and when ya fired it it would leave the muzzle and theoretically "hold" the shot together like a slug, for a ways anyway, worked on rabbits lol, i wont vouch for how safe it is but i never had a problem. dont remember who came up with this, we always wanted to try it on a deer, never did though. we also shoulda patterned it but IIRC we didnt.

so what ya say?? well, all i can say is "kids are nutz",

 

[mwerner]

I've heard of the cutting tactic, very old. Dangerous? Seems like you would get a lot of gas blowback around the brass head....

Those air-dropped "flechettes" were used by our forces in Vietnam as well, the idea was for a B-52 to drop huge numbers of the little non-explosive "bomblets" to clear jungles and landing zones. These were much different in character than the contemporary projectiles.
Think of a small (5" or so) solid-steel "bomb", complete with fins and such. Supposedly, the US- designed item had about the same striking energy as a .45 round.

 

[ABTOMAT-47]

Yeah, Vixen 03.

That's the book I read it in. Decent book, BTW. It takes place in the future and a lot of stuff in there is made up. I had never considered them being real for a second. If they are, well I'm not aware of it.

 

[Tiewas]

Oh, I didnt know that it was set in the future. Thanks for setting that straight.

 

[edgetrip]

The discs sound like they may be a similiar idea to lock blowing rounds. I don't remember the details of the conversation but back when I sold guns an ex-SAS trooper came in and we got to talking and he mentioned a shotshell they used made up of discs whose primary purpose was to" disengage" locks though he did say they were effective as anti personel rounds at very short distances.

 

[brandon]

I'm not sure how you'd even start to rifle a square barrel. And even if you did it, I can promise you it won't spin!

 

[Tiewas]

I didnt mean traditional rifling, just something that would make the disc catch on one side somewhat so that it would spin. Like making one side rough and the other smooth, I dunno it may just be impossible.