question about clay heat treating

T

tanto_dude

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Jan 25, 2008
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im new to this and I had a question, what mortar/cement should I use to differentially quench the blade, i have heard of a lot of methods but none of them are available in florida because I guess we don't need furnace cement here. is there a kind that is sold in home depot of lowes or something, if not what is the best brand to purchase online?

thanks, God bless
 
There is a furnace cement available in caulking tubes at HD or Lowes..... DO NOT NOT NOT use this unless you really like making over sized blades and cleaning cement out of the molecules of the blade.... grrrrrrrr :mad:

I use ATP-641 (an anti scale compound available from Brownells, it's cheap) mixed with Satanite (available from Darren Ellis and others.)

Here's the process I use for claying a blade:

Brush the entire blade with ATP and flash dry it with heat gun (I do this even edge quenching)

Fix pin holes in the ATP

Mix ATP and Satanite to a batter consistency

I use plastic picnic knives to spread it on about 1/8" thick down to the general area I want the "hamon" to follow

I use a artist brush with water to add the shapes to the hamon

Fix holes in the ATP and "clay"

Flash dry with heat gun

Look for pin holes in the ATP and clay

Heat treat
 
I did say to use Satanite.... the ATP and Satanite mixture is what Don Fogg uses. The ATP keeps scaling during HT to a minimum.

I recommend guys like Darren Pop's and other independent suppliers because they provide hard to find products at good prices. Besides I LIKE Darren, I've never met anyone from K&G or Jantz at a hammerin, I could be wrong (not about liking Darren and Pop's) but the bigger stores attending hammerins.

Edited to add:

Just noticed you're in Florida.... might want to look at Sheffield's Knife Supplies, they're in Florida and might have Satanite. I buy from them on occasion and they provide good service.
 
thanks for the help, have you heard anything about imperial furnace cement, I hear it sticks and breaks off easy, but I havent ever tried it.
 
The problem with furnace cement is that it's designed to bond with metal at high temps...... I lost like 3 blades to furnace cement because I was out of Satanite. It seriously bonds to the blade and is almost impossible to get out of the blade without going back to like 50 grit.
 
Will,

I was recommending tanto dude to get satanite, your post got in there before I got done typing--I'm kind of slow. I am going to try the ATP/satanite mixture though.

Tad Lynch
 
There is a furnace cement available in caulking tubes at HD or Lowes..... DO NOT NOT NOT use this unless you really like making over sized blades and cleaning cement out of the molecules of the blade.... grrrrrrrr
Click to expand...
That's funny, when I first started with clay heat treating that is what I used. It worked great for me.
 
Yeah, it worked fine. I switched to Satanite along the way and used it on some knives and that was definitely better, though, so it's worth getting. A little goes a long way.
 
Will Leavitt said:
The problem with furnace cement is that it's designed to bond with metal at high temps...... I lost like 3 blades to furnace cement because I was out of Satanite. It seriously bonds to the blade and is almost impossible to get out of the blade without going back to like 50 grit.
Click to expand...

I thought that was just part of the deal. Crap, I will throw that furnace cement away. I have used it a few times and always ended up with a lot of work after the heat treat to get it cleaned up. Tons of little pits that had to be sanded out. On the bright side, I have gotten a few pretty good temper lines with it. I will try satanite since I have a few pounds laying around. Man, temper lines are something that can consume a lot of a person's time. Thanks.

-Mike
 
Mike, you can use a thin wash of satanite to help prevent scale, then go back, thicken the mixture up and clay it so you won't waste much.
 
the stuff that comes in a tube may work better if the blade has a slight polish, that way there is less rough surface area for the stuff to bake into. by the way where does a person get satanite and ATP-641, i made a strange mixture out of fine sand , ash , and some water to bond it and it wont break off during heating but it requires some drying time or it will crack, I left it in an open jar and a few weeks late I noticed it dried like cement, its strong stuff for a DIY alternative.
 
tanto_dude said:
the stuff that comes in a tube may work better if the blade has a slight polish, that way there is less rough surface area for the stuff to bake into. by the way where does a person get satanite and ATP-641, i made a strange mixture out of fine sand , ash , and some water to bond it and it wont break off during heating but it requires some drying time or it will crack, I left it in an open jar and a few weeks late I noticed it dried like cement, its strong stuff for a DIY alternative.
Click to expand...
also it comes off easy in water and leaves only a little scale , but virtually no pits
 
most people are going to tell you you're wasting your time if you go over 320 grit pre-heat treat. You need a little surface grip for the satanite to stick to, besides the fun really starts after HT with the hand sanding to get that hamon to show

I suggest you buy Walter Sorrells dvd, alot of good step-by-step info.
 
I have been using the high temp furnace cement with good results. It does leave some material that needs to be removed but not much. I usually grind to 220grit, heat treat and then go back with a fresh 180grit to remove the scale and cement.

I am heat treating in an oven not a forge.

Here's 2 I recently did with the cement.

Image_Bonus.asp


Image_Bonus.asp
 
Hay guys & MERRY CHRISTMAS
I have over a qt of ITC 100 that I got with my Chili forge, Will this work ?
I do all blades by stock removal and have not tried any hamon stuff.
I usually sand to 1200 then black then green then white buff.So how would I sand
then how and with what would I itch.
Jerry
 
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