Question about prototypes...

Blades of Glory

Blades of Glory

Gold Member
Joined
May 13, 2015
Messages
1,186
Been on the forum in more of a buy/sell/trade capacity for years. Started collecting modern folders and EDC items and worked my way to the wonderful world of traditionals. Pretty sure this is where my desire to collect will reside as far as knives go. Probably the most fun I've had buying/selling/trading than any other collectibles. Self admittedly more of a lurker in this area than a commenter. Think this may be the first thread I've started in this area.

Have purchased many knives in many conditions over the years but just made my first "prototype" purchase. It's a barlow with a caplifter. Paid a premium for it directly from the brand. The condition is far from perfect or even new. Couple small dings on the bolsters. Caplifter has some deep scuffs. Can't tell if it's from a poor finish or use of the knife. Gritty open and close on both blades. BUT it's still a beautiful blade. For those familiar with buying prototypes, is this condition to be expected? Or, is the expectation that the knife be new/like new?
 
Based on the number of buy and sell threads you have created, I think we should be all be asking you for your opinion. Seems you have handled a lot of knives both new and used
 
Camillus said:
Based on the number of buy and sell threads you have created, I think we should be all be asking you for your opinion.
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Ha! Indeed but like I said my first prototype purchase. Just not sure if this is the norm. Do I pocket it and move on or bring it up with the vendor? I believe in fairness and if in the prototype world this is the norm then I'll let it be and start lifting caps :)
 
knifeswapper said:
Not much information to work with. Maker? When made? Pictures?
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I wasn't sure if it was good etiquette to name the maker but I'll oblige. It's a Trestle Pine Grand Portage. Made earlier this year (edit: looked over the box a little better and found it to be made in Apr of 2018). Doesn't have the tree stamp which is noted why it is considered a prototype. Will try to post some pics this evening.
 
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You have told me all I need to know. Will recuse myself since it is a competing dealer and a maker of which I have little good to say about their last few years production.

But I will say that prototypes are only genuine prototypes if they are made before general production and should come with a COA and in factory fresh condition. There are those that will etch a blade prototype simply to increase the value. Matter of fact, I have known people to pick two knives of a tray of randomly sequenced knives and etch them prototypes just to make a bit more money on them. Even had a well known 1990's knife purveyor tell me that by etching a knife "1 of 29"; he made it unique to those 29 even though 50 of them were actually made. So, don't put more money into a prototype than any other knife unless it is a variation that was never made in general production; or you have a COA that it was made well in advance of the general run. I have seen too many knives with small defects etched prototype just to help them move.
 
That’s one way of recusing yourself, but not what the term ‘recusing yourself’ ordinarily means.

The dealer in question is fantastic, and shouldn’t be judged adversely just because he doesn’t buy a spot and a voice on these forums.

I would be very pleased to have one of these rare knives, among the last made by Queen, a great company.

knifeswapper said:
You have told me all I need to know. Will recuse myself since it is a competing dealer and a maker of which I have little good to say about their last few years production.

But I will say that prototypes are only genuine prototypes if they are made before general production and should come with a COA and in factory fresh condition. There are those that will etch a blade prototype simply to increase the value. Matter of fact, I have known people to pick two knives of a tray of randomly sequenced knives and etch them prototypes just to make a bit more money on them. Even had a well known 1990's knife purveyor tell me that by etching a knife "1 of 29"; he made it unique to those 29 even though 50 of them were actually made. So, don't put more money into a prototype than any other knife unless it is a variation that was never made in general production; or you have a COA that it was made well in advance of the general run. I have seen too many knives with small defects etched prototype just to help them move.
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There are thousands more knife "prototypes" that are faked, than actually really exist!!
I have it on good authority that Queen's most famous maker made enough prototypes to fill two cupped hands for Case Classics (Jim Parker) yet hundreds of these so-called Protos have hit the market! Give me a break!!
Only exhaustive research will verify one of these knives. Most, if not all, on the open market, are not real "prototypes!!
 
The only knife I have that might be a prototype. A four blade Camillus that so far eludes me as ever having been put in production. Bought from a Camillus/Schrade employee who claimed it was a gift from Albert Baer's drawers full of samples!!:eek::rolleyes:;)Camillus 4blade stock 1.jpg Camillus 4blade stock 2.jpg Camillus 4blade stock 3.jpg Camillus 4blade stock 4.jpg Camillus 4blade stock 5.jpg Camillus 4blade stock 6.jpg
 
Thank you all for taking the time to provide info (and pics :D). Not sure if I'll kick up dust on this one or not. May just make it a workhorse...but it did come with a premium which is why I ask the question in the first place. Will exercise more caution in the future :cool::thumbsup:
 
I have a prototype "Black Widow" stockman made by Fight'n Rooster in the late 1970s. It is marked on the sheepfoot in block letters, and I've never seen another one, proto or otherwise. Maybe it's a one-off, maybe not, but I paid a price for it commensurate with the quality of the knife, so I'm OK either way.

rCU7jII.jpg

h9Ka2dn.jpg

sQ3H02N.jpg
 
knifeswapper said:
You have told me all I need to know. Will recuse myself since it is a competing dealer and a maker of which I have little good to say about their last few years production.

But I will say that prototypes are only genuine prototypes if they are made before general production and should come with a COA and in factory fresh condition. There are those that will etch a blade prototype simply to increase the value. Matter of fact, I have known people to pick two knives of a tray of randomly sequenced knives and etch them prototypes just to make a bit more money on them. Even had a well known 1990's knife purveyor tell me that by etching a knife "1 of 29"; he made it unique to those 29 even though 50 of them were actually made. So, don't put more money into a prototype than any other knife unless it is a variation that was never made in general production; or you have a COA that it was made well in advance of the general run. I have seen too many knives with small defects etched prototype just to help them move.
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Got a knife once marked 1/1000 once and I was super excited to think that somehow years after the run I got the very first one off the line.

Then a long long time later the other shoe dropped and I realized all the knives in the run were in fact one of one thousand and they were all marked with that etch.

Where I work we use lots of prototypes in product development and without exception they're wrong, not that great and no where near as slick as the later production versions. Unless they're super special they just get used to pieces and that's the end. We'd never sell one.
 
Danke42 said:
Got a knife once marked 1/1000 once and I was super excited to think that somehow years after the run I got the very first one off the line.

Then a long long time later the other shoe dropped and I realized all the knives in the run were in fact one of one thousand and they were all marked with that etch.

Where I work we use lots of prototypes in product development and without exception they're wrong, not that great and no where near as slick as the later production versions. Unless they're super special they just get used to pieces and that's the end. We'd never sell one.
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What do you make D Danke42 ??
 
black mamba said:
I have a prototype "Black Widow" stockman made by Fight'n Rooster in the late 1970s. It is marked on the sheepfoot in block letters, and I've never seen another one, proto or otherwise. Maybe it's a one-off, maybe not, but I paid a price for it commensurate with the quality of the knife, so I'm OK either way.

rCU7jII.jpg

h9Ka2dn.jpg

sQ3H02N.jpg
Click to expand...
I don't know what you paid, but for that clip blade etch alone it was probably worth it:D:cool::thumbsup:
 
Danke42 said:
Where I work we use lots of prototypes in product development and without exception they're wrong, not that great and no where near as slick as the later production versions.
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I have also wondered about this, while I dont have any prototypes, i do have this Schatt and Morgan "factory sample". It seems to me that it is slightly unrefined, and possibly meant to be a sort of a rough idea of what would eventually be produced at the factory, with a few changes here or there. As you can see ( hopefully in my poor pics) the bolsters are different lengths pile side to mark side.20201105_181023_copy_816x612.jpg 20201105_181220_copy_612x816.jpg Its my guess that the prototype would be the first piece made after all the refinements are made and before production actually begins??
 
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