Question about trading guns on the forum

Noxious Fumes said:
Anyone read the latest ballistic studies by the FBI...... Long story short..... 9mm, .40, .45, with modern ammo..... One is as effective as the other.
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Ballistic studies do not account for momentum and force. They only account for wound channel damage, and kinetic energy. They tell a good story, but not the whole story. A heavy bullet has a better result against body armor. or heavy clothing. I would rather have a 40 sw 180 grain or a 45 230 grain to a 9mm. The extra mass does deliver a harder hit regardless of penetration. Just IMO.
 
Cobalt said:
Ballistic studies do not account for momentum and force. They only account for wound channel damage, and kinetic energy. They tell a good story, but not the whole story. A heavy bullet has a better result against body armor. or heavy clothing. I would rather have a 40 sw 180 grain or a 45 230 grain to a 9mm. The extra mass does deliver a harder hit regardless of penetration. Just IMO.
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I totally agree, if given my choice of caliber I prefer .45 but if I'm thinking anything other than that is .357 sig all the way. Heavier than a 9 and with corbon you get 1500fps. Stopping power can only be achieved with more grains. I'm sure that the RIP rounds from G2 research would kill most first shit in any caliber but without talking about specific rounds, then betting the same just doesn't hold water....

I couldn't trust the fbi to not fudge the reports just to gain free bullets from their preferred supplier in their preferred caliber. If is attached to the government don't rule out their shadyness. Again only my 2¢.


The critical duty hornaday do great across the board.
 
Cobalt said:
Ballistic studies do not account for momentum and force. They only account for wound channel damage, and kinetic energy. They tell a good story, but not the whole story. A heavy bullet has a better result against body armor. or heavy clothing. I would rather have a 40 sw 180 grain or a 45 230 grain to a 9mm. The extra mass does deliver a harder hit regardless of penetration. Just IMO.
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Which explains the FN 5.7 (mm ~= 22.44 cal) being used by the Secret Service and other groups for, among its other capabilities, the ability to defeat body armor, soft IIRC. That does, I believe, include heavy clothing. Granted, the 5.7 is a rifle round out of a pistol platform but it is a pistol. That being said, Mas Ayoob, the resident SD expert at Glock Talk states that while he does not feel under prepared with a good 9 and +P or +P+ high quality JHPs, he does prefer a larger caliber in cold weather due to layered clothing. He explains that layers of heavy clothing might prevent any hollow point from expanding and if its going to turn into a ball type projectile, he wants a big & heavy one like a 45. Makes sense to me and he would know better than I and probably anyone else posting here as well.
Pete
 
pmsayre153 said:
Which explains the FN 5.7 (mm ~= 22.44 cal) being used by the Secret Service and other groups for, among its other capabilities, the ability to defeat body armor, soft IIRC. That does, I believe, include heavy clothing. Granted, the 5.7 is a rifle round out of a pistol platform but it is a pistol. That being said, Mas Ayoob, the resident SD expert at Glock Talk states that while he does not feel under prepared with a good 9 and +P or +P+ high quality JHPs, he does prefer a larger caliber in cold weather due to layered clothing. He explains that layers of heavy clothing might prevent any hollow point from expanding and if its going to turn into a ball type projectile, he wants a big & heavy one like a 45. Makes sense to me and he would know better than I and probably anyone else posting here as well.
Pete
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Which all relates back to why there is more than one cartridge type and more than one knife style. They all shine in a given scenario and some are more well rounded than other's. I don't think it should be much of a surprise to anyone that the larger diameter bullet therefore leaves a larger hole when shooting ball ammo but that doesn't mean it penetrates better so you have to make a decision on the application its being used in as to which one to carry. Power is good but anything is better than nothing. Massad's comments about hollow points getting clogged have always cracked me up..........I'm pretty sure the guy wearing his winter jacket won't know the hollow point is clogged....still gonna hurt.

If I know things are going to turn ugly..........I won't be packing a pistol.
 
pmsayre153 said:
Which explains the FN 5.7 (mm ~= 22.44 cal) being used by the Secret Service and other groups for, among its other capabilities, the ability to defeat body armor, soft IIRC. That does, I believe, include heavy clothing. Granted, the 5.7 is a rifle round out of a pistol platform but it is a pistol. That being said, Mas Ayoob, the resident SD expert at Glock Talk states that while he does not feel under prepared with a good 9 and +P or +P+ high quality JHPs, he does prefer a larger caliber in cold weather due to layered clothing. He explains that layers of heavy clothing might prevent any hollow point from expanding and if its going to turn into a ball type projectile, he wants a big & heavy one like a 45. Makes sense to me and he would know better than I and probably anyone else posting here as well.
Pete
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Hornaday fixed that with the critical defense. That's what the rubber tip does, correct? If you need to penetrate body armor then use a rifle, if your crooks and burglars wear body armor your 5.7 could help, or you could just shoot them in the face. I've never seen a vest cover anything other than center mass.

The most effective thing you can do is practice, practice, practice. When you can shoot moving things with accuracy then who cares what covers 1/3 of their body. If your gun is out you should mean business, I'm not talking a leg shot here. My friend is a deputy sheriff, he flat out said don't bring them to court with you, or let them limp around hating you for the rest of their life, neither ends well for you...
 
Mas makes recommendations based on real world results, not lab tests. What is issued and used on the streets by the police in armed confrontations. If the Hornaday round is adopted and used to good effect by enough departments that info will become known. Until then, its your choice,if you wish, to trust that the Hornaday round will work. I'll stick with Win 127gr +P+ or Speer 124gr +P as he recommends.
Pete
 
Andy the Aussie said:
The greatest handgun is of course the Browing Hi Power (not even close to an antique like the 1911 ;) ).... :D


I just love getting a little blood in the water to see who swims in..... ;)
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You are going to love my new Wilson SuperGrade when it comes in if you like the look of a HP.
 
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What's a good carry gun? Watermelon Ballistics Demonstration:
[video=youtube;iMWB7VygMCc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMWB7VygMCc[/video]

I do not own 22tcm, but do Guncrafter .50GI 1911 and love it.
 
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