Question for the .45 ACP lovers out there

I'm a 10mm and a .45 ACP fan and love them both for different reasons. The 10 mm is a great hunting round when it's loaded to the velocity it was designed for. A lot of the 10mm ammo you see is the "FBI load" which is the same velocity and same 180 grain bullet used in many .40 loads. I see no reason to use a 10mm unless you are firing the full power rounds otherwise it's just an expensive .40 S&W. The .45 ACP round is milder to shoot than a full powered 10mm load and more than adequate for any 2 legged pests you might encounter. It's also easier to get a 1911 in .45ACP to shoot reliably and accurately. My recommendation therefore, is get a 10 (Glock's a good choice) if you are going to hand gun hunt or need a powerful sidearm when in the wilderness. Otherwise the .45 is a better choice.
 
Uncle Ted popped a Warthog with a Glock 10mm... Pretty impressive.

He favors the caliber... which gives it a lot of credibility in my book. Wonder if Ted has INFI??? Jerry should send him some... guarantee he'd put it to good use!

More on Ted and the 10MM...

"Rock and Roll icon and enthusiastic big-game hunter Ted Nugent is known to carry a 10mm Glock as backup on his dangerous-game rifle hunts in the bush country of the Dark Continent and has used the gun as his primary weapon to hunt North American and African plains game. Nugent has taken elk, caribou, bear, boar, ram, oryx, warthog, eland and zebra with his 10mm, not to mention finishing off a wounded Cape buffalo."

From here: http://the10mmautoisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/

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Here is my take on this debate. First of all, the .45 acp in the 1911 platform has been around for 101 years. Why? Because it works, period. The .45 has a lower velocity than than the 10 mm which transfers more stopping power, in laymens terminoligy, to the target. The 10 mm has ballistics compariable to a .357 magnum.

Back in 1993 I read quite a few articles of the 10 mm overpentrating, which is a dissadvantage for home defence. That is why I chose the .40 and subsequently the .45 acp.

From stories told by my grandfather, who was in wwII and witnessed the .45 acp in action, I am sold with this calliber. And that is why I carry a 1911 chambered for a .45 acp.
 
IronMaiden0329 said:
Thanks for all the replies folks!!! I can see why many of you enjoy the 1911 platform. I shot a friend's Para Ordnance 14-45 today and it felt like I was shooting a 9. Many of you have made valid points about carry (over penetration, etc.) in the 10mm. My only complaint about the 1911 is grip angle, I simple don't aim it naturally like I do with the Glock. I find myself aiming slightly downwards upon presentation. That being said, do any of you recommend the Glock .45s or should I suck it up, retrain, and get a 1911? I really just want a .45 to complete my collection of calibers. I shoot .357 SIG, .40 Short & Weak (:p), and 9mm through my G32 and 10mm through my G20. What I may end up doing is selling my G20, Getting a G21, and buying a 10mm barrel for it. Then when money is better, invest in a decent 1911.
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get a G21. I have one. Some mods to it as well. Shoots great and not so heavy on ammo cost. 13 +1 rounds availability aint so bad either.
 
I picked up a Sig P220 last year and haven't looked back. Absolutely great. I personally love the double/single action combination. The .45 has a great track record and I simply don't see a need for anything more powerful for this type of firearm.
 
I've shot both the G-30 SF and the G-21 SF as well as several 1911's. With the extra magazine capacity I'd take a Glock as a user any day. If you want to customize your pistol the Glock is simple to do yourself versus shipping off the 1911 for upgrades. Of course this is my opinion. Glocks are a viable aption.
 
I had a Colt Delta Elite 10mm years ago and while it was fine looking firearm, it required $600 of gunsmithing to make it shoot reliably and accurately. I do regret selling it, and I also had no problem selling it quickly. I had several failure to fires using Winchester Black Talon rounds. The ammo issue kinda turned me off.
 
I am surprised than, although recoil was mentioned, the general rapidity of follow-up shots would favor the .45 also. That is the main reason I carry .45 in my 1911's, and 9mm in plastic guns. If I were in the woods, 10mm would get my vote. Overpenetration? I would venture to guess that the lighter bullets in 10mm would be just fine, similar to .357 mag as far as penetration is concerned.
 
JWRobinson said:
A lot of the 10mm ammo you see is the "FBI load" which is the same velocity and same 180 grain bullet used in many .40 loads. I see no reason to use a 10mm unless you are firing the full power rounds otherwise it's just an expensive .40 S&W.
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^this. Although it pained me greatly, I recently sold my G20. The cost of shooting the 10mm (although .45 ACP isn't that far behind) is rediculous. Nothing, in my opinion, was as awesome as some of the Double Tap 10mm (my favorite was the 135 grain @1600fps) but the cost was insane. As JWRobinson pointed out, all of the 10mm "target" ammo (American Eagle, Blazer) is simply expensive, long .40 S&W with almost identical ballistics. I have shot a Colt Delta Elite and found it to be "not as forgiving" as the Glocks with full 10mm rounds. To each there own, I guess but I won't ever own a 10 again. Kudos to Glock and some 1911 platforms for hanging on to the round though.
 
racegunner said:
That would be the backwards<->wrong way to do it. The slide on the G21 is lighter and not made to fire 10mm. It's machined out in the inside. Take a look.
You just need to get a Glock 29. The direct answer to your original question is no, a 45 cannot do anything a 10mm can't do better.
And now to really screw you up ... 460 Rowland!!
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Fixed it for you: http://460rowland.com/about/

And just to be clear, I like the 10mm Auto, I just don't see any reason to use it other than for the coolness factor. My one and only is this Springfield Armory Omega LSP (Long Slide Ported) that I had mildly customized by AP&W:

omegaheart.jpg
 
IronMaiden0329 said:
The .45 craze seems to be picking up again and it has me craving a 1911. I do have one question for you guys though: What can a .45 do that my 10mm can't do better? I know that 10mm is much more expensive from the factory, but I reload so that is not really a deciding factor for me. I once shot a Kimber Eclipse Custom II in 10mm and hated it compared to my G20. Are there any advantages to carrying a .45? Let me know.
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I am not an advocate of mixing 1911's and Glocks for defensive use because one has a safety to disengage and the other does'nt ... so for defensive use you don't want to be pulling a 1911 and working on the muscle memory developed with a Glock.

They both work well as reliable pistols so there is no distinct advantage in one over the other in that regard ...

As for calibre differences the only thing I would say is that a 10mm can be reloaded to replicate the LEO only ammo which can defeat level IIIA body armour which if you are conscious that many bad people are using this ... then sticking with what you have might be better. The .45acp is'nt a calibre which can develop the velocities required to do this ...
 
I love both... .45 is more proven on the battle field and the street. 1911 was designed for it so if you get a good quality 1911 with a heavy spring in it, it will handle the hottest loads out there and probably more than most us will shoot in a lifetime. Doubletapammo.com is great stuff if you want to add some steroids to your .45. And Mike's 10mm ammo is just smoking! May want to limit how much of that stuff you put through a 10mm 1911 cause it's HOT. Glock.....GLOCK is the only company to create a beast that will devour any and all the 10mm ammo that mankind has spawned-load it up as hot as you like and put a wolf guide rod and spring and a 6 inch barrel(G20) if you like-I do, and your good to go. I like Glocks but being the 1911 nut that I am, I still prefer the 1911 10mm over the Glock 10mm. If you need something strictly for self defense, you cannot argue with the 1911 .45 loaded hot.
 
broe said:
get a G21. I have one. Some mods to it as well. Shoots great and not so heavy on ammo cost. 13 +1 rounds availability aint so bad either.
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I was always a Glock man. Carried a Glock 22 for 20+ years. Had, yes HAD a Glock 21. Dang good pistol. Well, after shooting my G21 next to a Sig GSR 1911, same box of ammo, target at set at the same range, the G21 shot plate size groups, My Sig GSR shot 2.5 inch groups (out of the box, no mods). Now I am a proud owner of a Kimber Custom II Eclipse and no G21. Nuf said.
 
JWRobinson said:
I'm a 10mm and a .45 ACP fan and love them both for different reasons. The 10 mm is a great hunting round when it's loaded to the velocity it was designed for. A lot of the 10mm ammo you see is the "FBI load" which is the same velocity and same 180 grain bullet used in many .40 loads. I see no reason to use a 10mm unless you are firing the full power rounds otherwise it's just an expensive .40 S&W. The .45 ACP round is milder to shoot than a full powered 10mm load and more than adequate for any 2 legged pests you might encounter. It's also easier to get a 1911 in .45ACP to shoot reliably and accurately. My recommendation therefore, is get a 10 (Glock's a good choice) if you are going to hand gun hunt or need a powerful sidearm when in the wilderness. Otherwise the .45 is a better choice.
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yes to all of the above. I have a much-loved G20 but it's for the woods where I might need to shoot a beastie and am not worried about overpenetration. In an urban setting I would rely on my 1911 in .45 - which is also so much fun to shoot! (or my Caracal in 9mm b/c it's so easy to shoot accurately)
 
For those interested in the "issue" of over penetration and learning what are good choices for defensive ammunition here is a link to an article which still represents the best source of information on the topic ...

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm

Be sure to read the linked articles which relate to the best choice of bullet for Police use and also the article on specialised ammunition in the FAQ and the test of the Glaser safety slug when fired through hardboard material and into gelatin to replicate a missed shot inside a house and the risk of penetration of an interior wall.

The knowledge you can glean from this research is priceless ... and de-bunk's a lot of "myths" ...

The "primary" battle of living through an armed encounter and the "legal" battle which may follow will all be helped if you follow the information contained here as it still represent's the thinking which is used by virtually all Law Enforcement and Military choices for bullet and firearm selection for self defense and hostage rescue applications where the Military are not obliged to use FMJ "Geneva Convention" ammunition.

What is of particular note is that after the Miami FBI shooting the FBI's requirement that any pistol/ammunition combination must be able to penetrate 12 inches of Gelatin to be effective still remains today as the "benchmark" to go by ... so if you choose a calibre/round able to do this and carry this for self defense you are on a good footing to justify your choice ...

Equally noticeable from the results of bullets tested is that there are not a lot of differences in temporary wound cavity and overall penetration if you select the right JHP choices from the "mainstream" calibres ... and that standard JHP ammunition is definately the best choice for defensive carry compared to specialised rounds ... many of which fail to do what the need to in their intended circumstances and are suprisingly dangerous choices when fired in situations where you would expect them to be the safest of all ammunition ... ( see the Glaser Safety slug failing to fragment by being crimped at the tip of the bullet from passing through an internal wall ... thus making it a very high velocity "solid" projectile ).

One thing I take great comfort in is that if 9mm is your only choice for a calibre because of issue restrictions or general availability ... a 147g JHP Winchester load performs as well as anything else ... if the FBI were using these in the Miami encounter instead of faster lighter 115g bullets which did not penetrate sufficiently on a side torso shot to reach the assailant's heart ... they would have not lost two officers subsequently killed by this assailant.

It goes to show that the calibre is not as relevant as the "ammunition" choice ... and that a lot of "marketing" for high velocity light weight bullets has been utterly wrong ...

For those who are of the view the 10mm might "over penetrate" it is worth bearing in mind that this calibre was originally selected by the FBI after the Miami shooting because it consistantly passed the 12 inch penetration tests they carried out better than any other calibre ... so from a justification stand point choosing the 10mm has a good endorsement here ... it was only taken out of service because some agents found it difficult to shoot ...

Like as not "overpenetration" can happen with all calibres which can go to 12 inches as this replicates a side torso shot and a frontal shot will be a shorter distance ... if a tragedy happens because of this then arguing in court as to why you selected the firearm and round used will no doubt be critical ... as will whether you should have taken the shot ... the last point you cannot help in advance ... but you can do a lot to improve your position by choosing a calibre/ammo combination based on the recommendations of the research which the FBI uses. Dr Martin Fackler and Dr Gary Roberts are "the" consultants for the FBI ( and a whole lot of other agencies/countries who also use this research).
 
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PeterPHWS said:
They both work well as reliable pistols so there is no distinct advantage in one over the other in that regard ...
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Except in the highly subjective area of aesthetics....

PeterPHWS said:
The "primary" battle of living through an armed encounter and the "legal" battle which may follow will all be helped if you follow the information contained here as it still represent's the thinking which is used by virtually all Law Enforcement and Military choices for bullet and firearm selection for self defense and hostage rescue applications where the Military are not obliged to use FMJ "Hague Accord" ammunition.
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Fixed it for you.

http://www.thegunzone.com/hague.html

One of the most lamentable traditions among members of the firearms community is the tendency to latch on to a piece of misinformation and endlessly circulate it as authoritative. Nowhere is this more prevalent then on the subject of "dum-dum hollow point bullets" and their being "banned by the Geneva Convention."

Sound familiar?

It's not accurate, of course, but few, if any, ever make the effort to find out the true facts for the simple reason that the foregoing has so often been casually repeated by "gun persons," that, in keeping with "Goebbels' Big Lie" theory, it has taken on the aura of a verity.

For openers, "dum-dum bullets," named for their arsenal of origin in a town near Calcutta, India, are soft-nosed projectiles, not hollow points. And their deployment under the "Laws of War" is proscribed by a "Declaration on the Use of Bullets Which Expand or Flatten Easily in the Human Body" adopted at the First Hague Peace Conference of (29 July) 1899 which states:

The Undersigned, Plenipotentiaries of the Powers represented at the International Peace Conference at The Hague, duly authorized to that effect by their Governments,

Inspired by the sentiments which found expression in the Declaration of St. Petersburg of the 29th November (11th December), 1868,

Declare as follows:

"The Contracting Parties agree to abstain from the use of bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body, such as bullets with a hard envelope which does not entirely cover the core, or is pierced with incisions."

The present Declaration is only binding for the Contracting Powers in the case of a war between two or more of them.

It shall cease to be binding from the time when, in a war between the Contracting Parties, one of the belligerents is joined by a non-Contracting Power."
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Although not a party to this accord, as a matter of policy the United States has acknowledged and respected its applicability in conventional combat operations since its adoption more than one century ago.
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PeterPHWS said:
I am not an advocate of mixing 1911's and Glocks for defensive use because one has a safety to disengage and the other does'nt ... so for defensive use you don't want to be pulling a 1911 and working on the muscle memory developed with a Glock.

They both work well as reliable pistols so there is no distinct advantage in one over the other in that regard ...

As for calibre differences the only thing I would say is that a 10mm can be reloaded to replicate the LEO only ammo which can defeat level IIIA body armour which if you are conscious that many bad people are using this ... then sticking with what you have might be better. The .45acp is'nt a calibre which can develop the velocities required to do this ...
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Peter makes a valuable point there.


Pick your platform, train with it, know it well.




Big Mike
 
The reason I prefer .45 over 10mm is because if the stuff ever did hit the fan it will be easier to pick up .45 from their cold dead hands than it will be to pick up 10mm.

Also, unless you are shooting full power 10mm it's a waste..and the FBI spec'ed out the S&W 1076 in 10mm but their agents couldn't handle the full power loads and now we have 40 S&W.

I have a FBI 1076, they say it's fun to shoot, I wouldn't know..I'm too cheap to buck up the cash for the ammo.

ALSO...as you stated Point of Aim for me on a 1911 is dead on and nose up with a Glock
 
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