Question on Bluing Processes

Leonardo63

Leonardo63

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I've searched through the old threads on Bluing and I'm curious if there's anything new out there, what's old that flat out works.

I'm in a dilemma with my TGA2 SE ~ I've stripped it and polished it out where I'm happy with it. There's one issue I've found with the A2 - it will rust overnight if I put a drop of water on it. I also picked up lots of rust in the fuller in the really high humidity we've had lately (maybe I still have some cooked carbon deposited in the fine machine lines?). IMO, and I'm curious if others have an opinion, compared to 101 it seems to rust almost instantly where to get the same kind of oxidation on 101 would take 10 days and it still is more of a rusty stain where the A2 really builds a pile of brown powder.

I've done gun parts/barrels with "Birchwood Casey" Super Blue. After stripping, sanding, smoothing and polishing, wiping down with solvent (with rubber gloves-no fingerprints) I applied and polished out several coats until I liked the color. I then baked in the oven at low temp covered in vaseline (a process I found recommended somewhere at the time that sounded good)- then finish polish with gun grease.
I restored and customized an 1100 about 10 years ago with this method and still looks great-but, it's not a knife :eek:

Trying something new like this makes me have to ask who's got any great idea that will give me protection?
So I have to bounce this situation off my Busse Family to guide me if there's some good tips I should have in my bag of tricks :D
 
I've done it to knives I know will never touch food. Used cold blue. I found it hard to get a uniform result, but that could be my application method or just general noobing.

Im hesitant to do it again, it wore off faster than forcing a patina.

If your method works well, I'd be interested to do it myself. My a2tg is sitting unloved and I bought it specifically to strip.
 
I tried Hoppes Gun Blue 1700 on old-style Competition Finish INFI that didn't have the decarb removed. It didn't prevent rust. Years later I took a ScotchBrite pad to the decarb and reblued them with Brownell's Oxpho-Blue, which worked much better, although it still didn't give a deep blue like you'd get on carbon steel. A few years after that, the knives were still rust-free, but I wanted a darker blade. Someone had mentioned Kleen-Bore Black Magic for SR101, so I tried that. it came out much blacker. Not so black that Nigel Tufnel would look at it and say, "how much blacker could it be," but still pretty satisfactory. And still no rust, but I put that more down to it being INFI with the decarb removed, There's a thread about that here.

The Oxpho-Blue worked a lot better on an SR101 Scarpivore. The Scrapy is still rust-free a year or so later. (But it was put away oiled and hasn't been used much.)
 
My experience with A2 is primarily with Fiddleback Forges' customs...they are relatively highly finished on the non-hammered part, and they do not randomly pick up rust just sitting around new, except one, and I think it got wet or sweat on it. Sweat, etc will stain them pretty immediately and i have used the ones I use on foods to force a patina, and then just general use keeps them pretty clean. That Frog Lube for guns is supposed to be eco-friendly, not sure about food friendly...it is made out of food grade products it says...not greasy, "slingy" or runny when wiped off. I have had good experience with performance and rust aversion on a blued Henry rifle with the Frog Lube.

I have had good patina on a naked SR101 blade with the potato method...getting a big ass potato or 2, cleaving them in 2 longways like a baked potato and encasing all that in foil and string for a day or so...that blade has not rusted since...it was satin from factory and I noticed some beginnings of rust developing, so I sanded and did the potato thing.

C
 
I would tend toward thinking there is some carbonization (or whatever) still present. I've got several A2 knives from a couple other makers/manufacturers, and haven't had any rusting problems, with very little (no?) care put toward keeping them oiled and protected. So unless there is something done in the heat treat that makes them drastically more rust prone, surface contamination seems most likely.

One thing I've done a couple times to get a protective layer (no bluing) is mustard on the blade. You can get some interesting patterns, too. But if you must have bluing... I'm afraid I'm not much help.
 
dogboye said:
I would tend toward thinking there is some carbonization (or whatever) still present. I've got several A2 knives from a couple other makers/manufacturers, and haven't had any rusting problems, with very little (no?) care put toward keeping them oiled and protected. So unless there is something done in the heat treat that makes them drastically more rust prone, surface contamination seems most likely.

One thing I've done a couple times to get a protective layer (no bluing) is mustard on the blade. You can get some interesting patterns, too. But if you must have bluing... I'm afraid I'm not much help.
Click to expand...

I do live in South Louisiana, too.
 
As a point of reference, I'm in southern MD, near the Cheasapeake Bay. The humidity usually stays above 80% from about mid-June through mid-September. Although my A2 knives aren't out in it all that time. One brand was a lot, when I first got them, but never any corrosion problem. My TGA2 are still coated. Don't have a particular desire to strip them. After doing a few, I've gone away from forced stripping, and will just let the coating wear off.
I do have a stripped SR101 blade, though, that isn't having any issues with the humidity.
 
dogboye said:
I would tend toward thinking there is some carbonization (or whatever) still present. I've got several A2 knives from a couple other makers/manufacturers, and haven't had any rusting problems, with very little (no?) care put toward keeping them oiled and protected. So unless there is something done in the heat treat that makes them drastically more rust prone, surface contamination seems most likely.

One thing I've done a couple times to get a protective layer (no bluing) is mustard on the blade. You can get some interesting patterns, too. But if you must have bluing... I'm afraid I'm not much help.
Click to expand...

dogboye said:
As a point of reference, I'm in southern MD, near the Cheasapeake Bay. The humidity usually stays above 80% from about mid-June through mid-September. Although my A2 knives aren't out in it all that time. One brand was a lot, when I first got them, but never any corrosion problem. My TGA2 are still coated. Don't have a particular desire to strip them. After doing a few, I've gone away from forced stripping, and will just let the coating wear off.
I do have a stripped SR101 blade, though, that isn't having any issues with the humidity.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree with the stripping leaving somehtig behind if you are getting like orange and brown stuff...

The stuff on A2 I am referring to came off with a thumbnail, no real issue with rust although they do stain easily, being non-stainless.
 
Good tips and the stuff I was looking for.
Something I've come across that's raising my curiosity- There was a guy who did a vid using a solution to force an immediate rust- then followed up using a cold blue method *I'll call it a warm blue since he heated it up looking for 150deg temp to remove moisture* and applying several coats of Oxpho, steel wooling in between, pretty much the same process I remember using when I did my last gun. He claimed doing that first step basically built up a corrosion resistant layer. What I'm envisioning is this is the "forced patina" so many have used. Am I correct assuming this forced patina is the actual buildup of an oxide layer to become a corrosion barrier?
 
Copper sulfate iirc on the cold blue. Yes the forced patina method is to produce magnetite I believe, black iron oxide.
 
Leanardo,
Please post again after your done so we can share your methodology and results.
Thanks
Surfsidemel
 
RebelSon said:
Boiling hot vinegar.
Click to expand...
Short and sweet- and after doing some looking around, quite interesting!
Found a guy who does custom razors, that's what he does, boiling vinegar, steel wool it, oil up and Fin - and the color looked amazing - Now, I'm wondering, follow that up with Oxpho? ... Quite tempting - There's really no risk to trying as it's nothing that can't be reversed. What the hell, might throw a combination of several things mentioned here
 
The problem with the Oxpho is that it is toxic, isn't it? So, it becomes a concern using the knife on any food prep. If you KNOW you won't be using this particular knife (which, quite honestly, a 7+ inch blade is a little on the large side for me to use a good prep), then go for it. Although, I seem to remember someone slicing up the Thanksgiving or Christmas turkey with a TGLB...

So you're saying the guy boils the vinegar with the blade in it? Or dips the blade in the boiling vinegar? Then rubs the finish with steel wool?
 
dogboye said:
So you're saying the guy boils the vinegar with the blade in it? Or dips the blade in the boiling vinegar? Then rubs the finish with steel wool?
Click to expand...
Heats it up to boiling - pours in a container- hangs the blade in it- rinse and repeat - Looks like the same basic idea as other methods, to build up a layer of oxide if I'm understanding correctly?
 
Looks like the same basic idea to me as well.
I think I'm going to try this in the next few day! I have that stripped Jackmandu in SR101 that doesn't really have a good surface treatment on it. Just kinda going along picking up patina here and there. But this method might just do the trick.

I don't suppose you have a link to photos of this guy's handiwork, do you?
 
dogboye said:
Looks like the same basic idea to me as well.
I think I'm going to try this in the next few day! I have that stripped Jackmandu in SR101 that doesn't really have a good surface treatment on it. Just kinda going along picking up patina here and there. But this method might just do the trick.

I don't suppose you have a link to photos of this guy's handiwork, do you?
Click to expand...
This is where I came across it
Cat is "Lewis Razors"
 
I'm not familiar with oxpho. I did the vinegar method on a few because I like the color. I rinsed with soap and hot water in between apps and I will say I still get black residue on a peach when I cut it sometimes. I'm tempted to just use froglube, works great on my guns and is food safe. Has a nice minty smell for indoors too lol although everyone is used to hoppes no9 here.
 
I used Oxpho on a Ratweiler to give it the look of still having decarb. I've heard people say that it shouldn't be used on blades that will be for food prep but I'm not worried about it.
 
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