Question to Knife Sellers on This Forum

[Blues]

Not seeing where we disagree, once payment is made, the seller is responsible to get the buyer their newly purchased property, any issues that arise from this the seller is responsible for (insurance, stolen, etc). If the item was properly represented and delivered without issue then both parties should be happy and the deal is done. Buyers remorse on the part of the buyer is in no way under the sellers control and as such is not the sellers problem. Some sellers might choose to make a deal to avoid further conflict or escalation but are not bound to do so. At least in my book.

I was taking issue with your saying "once paid for it's the buyer's property"...thinking that you meant that it's on them from that point on.

Your post which I quote above resolves that apparent contradiction.

I still believe that both parties should be satisfied upon its receipt by the purchaser...or the seller should stipulate in the sale thread the conditions of sale, including whether or not returns and refunds will be honored if the buyer is not satisfied.

 

[Nebuchadnezzar]

I was taking issue with your saying "once paid for it's the buyer's property"...thinking that you meant that it's on them from that point on.

Your post which I quote above resolves that apparent contradiction.

I still believe that both parties should be satisfied upon its receipt by the purchaser...or the seller should stipulate in the sale thread the conditions of sale, including whether or not returns and refunds will be honored if the buyer is not satisfied.

 

[topfuel6]

It is also the seller's responsibility to insure the item if he cannot afford, or is not willing to accept, the financial loss. Insurance protects the seller, not the buyer.

I see a lot of sellers who (cluelessly, IMO) post in sales ads that the buyer will be charged for insurance. I just shake my head and move on.

 

[JJ_Colt45]

I learned and for the most part agree with a deal isn't done until both parties are satisfied. And in the last few months I had had the situation come up twice where buyers wanted a knife I had and a deal was made, I was payed and the knife shipped.

The first case before the knife had time to be delivered the buyer had second thoughts. Yes It frustrated me but I told the buyer when they receieved the package please just refuse it and when I got it back I would refund all but what it cost me to ship it. The buyer didn't think he should pay that but after explaining that was how it was settled.

Another buyer decided once he got the knife it wasn't perefect (but it was shown in the pictures exactly what he mentioned) but I again said if you aren't happy with it send it back as it is and I'll refund all but the shipping cost. He wanted to try to sell it first and I said no do not try to sell it first if you aren't happy just return it for the refund minus shipping. You can't try to sell the knife if you aren't buying it.

So yeah it can be frustrating, but I try to be honest and fair and if they don't want it I don't want to push it on them. My reputation means more to me than that too for what that's worth. But it has made me think about being much pickier on who I agree to sell too with more stipulations.

 

[Peter Hartwig]

I see a lot of sellers who (cluelessly, IMO) post in sales ads that the buyer will be charged for insurance. I just shake my head and move on.

Moving on is all you can do. With the widespread use of PP FF they can somewhat get away with this. Moderators can ban someone for not refunding on a loss, but they can't force them to pay. With G&S you could just ignore it. If the seller didn't buy insurance they were still on the hook if the buyer made a claim.

 

[AntDog]

Very early on here I learned a hard lesson. That “deal isn’t done until both parties are happy clause” isn’t abided by everyone.

I bought a pretty high dollar knife (for me) and when it showed up it had been sorely misrepresented. I contacted the seller and they basically told me “tough shit, I already spent the money, plus it isn’t all that bad”. So, I sold the knife with a pinpoint precision accurate description for about what I paid, and life went on. But the lesson was learned in the process.

I, personally, go by the rule that the deal is not done until both parties are satisfied, but not everyone does. Not even back then 20+ years ago when it was a HUGE deal. I could’ve raised all kinds of hell and basically got him blackballed but I didn’t.

If I were the seller in this case I’d have the buyer ship the knife back. If it made it back in the same exact condition I’d refund his money minus shipping, explain to him the principle of being a man and sticking to a deal despite buyer’s remorse and following through on his own to resell the knife, then I’d plunk his ass straight on my ignore list.

Speaking of, sounds like a good time to add OP to mine. Don’t need that type of bullshit in my life.

 

[KELAMA]

I would like to ask, if you are selling a knife and a buyer pays for it, then a few hours later, after you made a shipping label, the buyer changes his mind and offers to reimburse shipping cost, would you agree to honor this change of mind in respect of the buyer? Or would you just tell the buyer to resell the knife? I am very curious about your feedback on a situation such as this?

^ Now that we know the rest of the facts, (thanks to the the seller in question), I personally would never sell you anything under any circumstances, moving forward.

The fact that you would even feel the need come on here and start a thread in the GBU asking other forum member's opinions, regarding what they would do, I feel speaks volumes as to your questionable business ethics, or lack thereof.

What I find most ironic is, that you're actually the said buyer in your hypothetically crafted OP, because upon reading this I initially had thought: "Oh, this guy is probably the seller in question."

If i haven't shipped it and they reimbursed me for the label i would let them out of the deal but i wouldn't sell anything to them going forward.

+1

For full clarity here folks I am the one in question. The op agreed to purchase a knife, paid me, and then 6 hours later asked me to cancel due to a change of mind. At that point the knife had already been processed by USPS and had departed the post office.

I've had this exact same scenario happen to me here once before. I just politely asked that he return the knife, immediately refunded his $$$ once I has receipt of said knife, and then put him on my "never do business" again list.

I would refund, explain what being a man of your word is, then block them.

+1

I told him I would. When I get the knife back I’ll refund his money.

Not going to lie it irks me since this is not a case of there being any issue with the knife but simply due to a change of mind and buyers remorse. It clearly states in the rules for buyers to be certain they want an item before committing to purchase and if they want to cancel a deal they must do so before paying for it.

Absolutely, DustinK! It irks me just reading what transpired here, and then the fact that the OP actually has the audacity to come on here seeking clarification from other member's, in regards to his highly questionable actions (like he has zero accountability here and did nothing wrong)..... YGTBFKM!

 

[KELAMA]

I have sold 40 knives here on BF. If even one person told me they were not satisfied with the knife when they got it, I would completely understand and allow a return. Or if the person changed their mind right after I shipped, I would take care of this as well. Because I treat others with the same respect that I would like to be treated with. I don't think I am asking for too much, and most every seller I have bought from on this forum was willing to honor a return if there was not satisfaction with the transaction.

As a buyer/seller on this forum, I ascribe to most of what you wrote above, however, let's be perfectly clear here:

When engaging in any type of business transaction, reneging on one's word, is not being, "respectful."
What you did here, was not, "respectful," in any way shape or form.

Bottom line: You impulsively felt that you just had to have DustinK's knife (preventing other member's here from possibly buying it and saving him this big headache your actions presently have dealing with now).....and now you're holding his knife/$$$ in limbo for at least another week, while it makes it's back and forth RT journey.....

And the fact that you're here defending these actions, is quite frankly, pathetic!

Man I sure miss the old school days/ways of doing business (before stupid internet drama), back when a man's handshake/name, was his bond.

 

[nelsress]

If a seller wants to act like this is big business then they should adapt some of the things that other businesses are subject to, like the buyer's remorse law. Even with an automobile you get 3 days to change your mind. Now, to be clear, I've never changed my mind on a knife deal but I also don't think it makes anyone a pariah who should be forever shunned from purchasing from you again but, that's up to you. I've been around long enough to know that people change their minds about all kinds of things, some even MORE IMPORTANT than a knife purchase, believe it or not! ;-) Things like major purchases and even when it comes to MAJOR life decisions like marriage, etc. so, personally, I'm inclined to cut anyone slack who tells me they changed their mind. What do I know about their lives? Maybe they just got hit with a big, unexpected bill of some sort, the guy may have just been told his position at work has been eliminated, maybe the guy has an out of control knife buying habit, maybe he forgot to pay a bill that this knife purchase will delay causing him credit problems, I HAVE NO IDEA.

If this is a recurring theme with a buyer, THEN I'd certainly consider blocking them but not on one transaction. If I ran my business based on "one strike and you're out" I'm pretty sure that all those dentists who never heard of me before, would all of a sudden "know" something bad about me, were I to refuse to do business with one dentist due to some seemingly (to someone) petty issue. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt and don't run my business in such a way that should a client/customer NOT pay a bill, it won't negatively affect my bottom line in a drastic way. If the guy you blocked due to a change of heart on a knife sale, knows a lot of people, the negative word of mouth that a vindictive person could spread will hurt you more than that one lost sale. Besides, if you get a refund on the item AND shipping, what's the BIG problem? So you wasted a little time, I get it, it's annoying but who among this group has not wasted far more time combing this site and others, looking for that one knife that has elluded them? Some would say every minute you spend looking and not finding is wasted time.

As I said, I have a business unrelated to knives and so I'm sure my opinion will differ with many on here who are selling knives as a business. I buy knives I think I want to have and then, once I have it in hand, if it's one I've never handled before, I make the final decision as to whether or not it's a "keeper" which makes me a hobbyist. I only put knives up for sale that I decided that I no longer wanted to have. That said, even as a hobbyist, I am also a small business owner and generally use the same principles in my hobby sales as my business. I don't know about any of you but over the course of my almost 69 years here and going on 46 years of marriage, I've made decisions that I'd like to change but it was too late. That's the "school of hard knocks". In my hobbies, if at all possible, I'd like to keep it a little more casual than that. Don't get me wrong, if I get ripped off by someone, I won't sell to them again but a change of heart will not get me to that point but, again, that's just me and my opinion.

So, in my typically wordy fashion, I'm definetely inclined to give first offenders the benefit of the doubt and reevaluate from there. Who knows, with some understanding, you just might gain a long time customer and maybe even a friend. I will say that I've never been disappointed in my dealings with anyone on this site as a buyer. As a seller, I believe I've only ever sold one or two items and they too were without incident. Overall, I'd say we've got something good here, not perfect but, what is? I know I make mistakes and so assume others do as well and, as was stated in this thread at least once, I try to always 'do unto others as I would have them do unto me', to paraphrase a passage from a famous book. Happy collecting and selling y'all, enjoy this cool hobby of ours.

 

[Blues]

^^^^^

For the record, "Gold" members who are selling knives as a "business" are violating BladeForums policy by not ponying up for a "Dealer" or "Knife Maker" membership, as applicable. So, they too would run the risk of having their Exchange privileges shut down in future, or worse.

Food for thought. The knife cuts both ways.

 

[Peter Hartwig]

If a seller wants to act like this is big business then they should adapt some of the things that other businesses are subject to, like the buyer's remorse law. Even with an automobile you get 3 days to change your mind. Now, to be clear, I've never changed my mind on a knife deal but I also don't think it makes anyone a pariah who should be forever shunned from purchasing from you again but, that's up to you. I've been around long enough to know that people change their minds about all kinds of things, some even MORE IMPORTANT than a knife purchase, believe it or not! ;-) Things like major purchases and even when it comes to MAJOR life decisions like marriage, etc. so, personally, I'm inclined to cut anyone slack who tells me they changed their mind. What do I know about their lives? Maybe they just got hit with a big, unexpected bill of some sort, the guy may have just been told his position at work has been eliminated, maybe the guy has an out of control knife buying habit, maybe he forgot to pay a bill that this knife purchase will delay causing him credit problems, I HAVE NO IDEA.

If this is a recurring theme with a buyer, THEN I'd certainly consider blocking them but not on one transaction. If I ran my business based on "one strike and you're out" I'm pretty sure that all those dentists who never heard of me before, would all of a sudden "know" something bad about me, were I to refuse to do business with one dentist due to some seemingly (to someone) petty issue. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt and don't run my business in such a way that should a client/customer NOT pay a bill, it won't negatively affect my bottom line in a drastic way. If the guy you blocked due to a change of heart on a knife sale, knows a lot of people, the negative word of mouth that a vindictive person could spread will hurt you more than that one lost sale. Besides, if you get a refund on the item AND shipping, what's the BIG problem? So you wasted a little time, I get it, it's annoying but who among this group has not wasted far more time combing this site and others, looking for that one knife that has elluded them? Some would say every minute you spend looking and not finding is wasted time.

As I said, I have a business unrelated to knives and so I'm sure my opinion will differ with many on here who are selling knives as a business. I buy knives I think I want to have and then, once I have it in hand, if it's one I've never handled before, I make the final decision as to whether or not it's a "keeper" which makes me a hobbyist. I only put knives up for sale that I decided that I no longer wanted to have. That said, even as a hobbyist, I am also a small business owner and generally use the same principles in my hobby sales as my business. I don't know about any of you but over the course of my almost 69 years here and going on 46 years of marriage, I've made decisions that I'd like to change but it was too late. That's the "school of hard knocks". In my hobbies, if at all possible, I'd like to keep it a little more casual than that. Don't get me wrong, if I get ripped off by someone, I won't sell to them again but a change of heart will not get me to that point but, again, that's just me and my opinion.

So, in my typically wordy fashion, I'm definetely inclined to give first offenders the benefit of the doubt and reevaluate from there. Who knows, with some understanding, you just might gain a long time customer and maybe even a friend. I will say that I've never been disappointed in my dealings with anyone on this site as a buyer. As a seller, I believe I've only ever sold one or two items and they too were without incident. Overall, I'd say we've got something good here, not perfect but, what is? I know I make mistakes and so assume others do as well and, as was stated in this thread at least once, I try to always 'do unto others as I would have them do unto me', to paraphrase a passage from a famous book. Happy collecting and selling y'all, enjoy this cool hobby of ours.

WE don't know the motivation of the seller either, and this will certainly result in him having to wait the 14 days to repost in order to get a sale plus having taken needless risk in the postal system. Nobody is telling others to put the buyer on an ignore list, that is each members personal decission. Almost to a member we have said to refund the money after getting the knife back, the seller included. It was the buyer that started the thread, not the seller, and he seems to think there is no problem in acting this way. He is not right and needs to adjust his thoughts on this.IMO.
For the record, I don't keep an ignore list, though from time to time I will find someone on ignore,that I never put on.

 

[Blues]

I'm sure we could work out allowing him to re-post sooner than 14 days if it came to it. Let's take care of the other stuff first, and worry about that once the knife is returned.

Best not to make concrete statements and assumptions about policy and where and when exceptions may be made.

 

[EngrSorenson]

May not be against the rules, but I hate to see wasted time or money.
A little careful thinking ahead of the purchase might have saved DustinK some time and trouble.

 

[Peter Hartwig]

I'm sure we could work out allowing him to re-post sooner than 14 days if it came to it. Let's take care of the other stuff first, and worry about that once the knife is returned.

Best not to make concrete statements and assumptions about policy and where and when exceptions may be made.

Good to know

 

[DustinK]

WE don't know the motivation of the seller either, and this will certainly result in him having to wait the 14 days to repost in order to get a sale plus having taken needless risk in the postal system. Nobody is telling others to put the buyer on an ignore list, that is each members personal decission. Almost to a member we have said to refund the money after getting the knife back, the seller included. It was the buyer that started the thread, not the seller, and he seems to think there is no problem in acting this way. He is not right and needs to adjust his thoughts on this.IMO.
For the record, I don't keep an ignore list, though from time to time I will find someone on ignore,that I never put on.

My motivation is simple, I’m picking up a new KTM 500 EXC-F this weekend so selling knives for fun parts for it lol. Knives are a hobby to me and far from a business as someone above was talking about. Close to 100 transactions across various platforms and never had a situation like this happen. As a seller I’m all for refunding if the knife gets lost in transit or there is an issue. Someone watching a YouTube video and deciding that based on a YouTubers review they no longer like a knife and want to cancel a deal after it’s already shipped is a new one to me.

 

[Blues]

We've all been down this road, DustinK , both the good and the bad. Nobody escapes this life without bumps or bruises along the way.

That said, we try do everything we can to assist our members on both sides of a transaction. It is unfortunate that this took place, but it's not the end of the world and when you get the knife back, let me know when you are ready to re-post it. I'll add a comment to cover you if it's sooner than the two week period ordinarily required. (That will keep us from fielding numerous reports from various other parties.)

Don't think that your doing the right thing goes unnoticed or unappreciated.

 

[Blues]

Okay, now that everyone's gotten their point of view across, and in some cases their "outrage", I'm going to close this thread for now and send a PM to both DustinK and Niall88 to keep both me and Boru13 apprised of the progress on the resolution of this matter.

Once it is settled it will be reopened for the purpose of reporting the outcome.

 

[Blues]

Just as a brief update:

It appears that the seller has agreed to the return of the knife and hopefully the matter will be resolved amicably and put to bed without further drama.