Questions about how makers price their knives

PIndelicato

PIndelicato

Joined
Sep 16, 2002
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I hope this is an appropriate topic...if not, I apologize in advance!

I'm just getting into this as a hobby and seeing how much time, work, materials, tools, etc. it takes to make a knife (at least at my level.) I surf the makers for sale area almost every day, and I am constantly seeing what appear to be great, well made knives for sale in a rough range of say $60-$150. Most of the time this even includes a handmade sheath in the deal.

I realize that you can only charge what the market (and perhaps your reputation?) will allow, but how can someone possibly be making money...heck, not even loosing money...selling knives at these prices?

I'm thinking not only about one's time, but also about the cost of materials. I know the materials are not hugely expensive on a per knife basis, but if you consider the cost of the steel, wood, adhesive, electricity, grinder belts, sandpaper, gas for the forge, leather, thread, tools, etc., and everything else that goes into making a knife, how are people doing this?

Thanks for humoring me!
 
I hope to break even. Most of the time I do not. I figured on one billet of damascus I made I had over 100 hrs in just getting the billet done. Though I got enough for 4 knives out of that billet it was still a lot of time and materials. My goal is $25/hr but it usually works out to about $10 and that is not including materials. Knifemaking can be a very expensive hobby. The investment is crazy for the return.
 
I have to agree with Chuck. It is a labor of love. I am still amazed that people want to buy my knives. Most of us have full time jobs and make knives as a hobby,or sideline. Kind of like playing golf for free. You get to create something that someone will use and treasure, and if they pay you for it you can buy more stuff to make more knives. Right now I am hopeing to get good enough, so that when I retire I can use knifemaking to subsadize my retirement. All in all its just alot of fun and a little extra money.
I am just an ordinary guy I'll never be remembered in history books or famose but just mabe in a hundred years "This was your grandads knife he carried it in the war,They don't make-em like that any more" and my name will be on the blade.Thats enough!
 
I as well as many choose to sell by style,materials,reputation and not by the hour.Sometimes by the hour gets really depressing.If your quality and materials are equal to your peers then shouldnt you also have a similar value?Yes,well known/liked makers get more but dont sell your self short either.Also, I highly recommend you dont do this for money but instead do it for fun.You will learn faster with less pressure on yourself.Make knives for family and friends, develop your basic skill,have fun,then get involved in sales.
 
You're definitely not going to get rich doing this (unless you are perhaps some really famous maker who pops out knives like popcorn). You can try to figure out how much you would like to make per hour making knives, and then completely throw out that idea altogether for the next few years and get down to reality. Most guys I see selling their blades on here (in my mind) are charging too little for what their work is actually worth. Some guys on here may charge as little as they do because they do so many at a time and have no bills to pay and live in the middle of no where where the cost of living is low and are able to charge what they charge. Most who charge as little as they do for their skill level simply do it for the love of it and if they make a little money on the side for it, then that's just a bonus for them. As you make knives and get better and better, your price and demand will go up. If you know economics well, then most likely you won't price yourself out of the market but there are a lot of people out there with lots of $$$ and are willing to take a chance on someone's work. Some are about fit and finish and others could care less about that so long as the blade can cut.

One guy can probably make the most beautiful knife ever and can sorta kinda cut while the other guys fit and finish is horrible, but his blades can cut like no one else's business, he acquires a reputation for that, and then people start flooding his table and he can most likely ask what he wants for the knife he sells as all you will need is one to do the job it would take 30 knives to do.
 
It has been said (and scoffed at by those that will never understand, but it is true) that many makers would still make knives if they knew that they would never sell another one. You have to love making knives and meeting the people that like knives. It is a great experience to see someone excited to get something that you made. Give a friend a combat knife for his son that is heading overseas and see that reaction you get. You can't put a price on it and you won't get the same feeling playing golf.

It can be a successful business but it will take work and it needs to be treated like a business.
 
Great conversation guys, thanks for your input. I don't really have any aspirations at this point, I just am fascinated by the process of making a knife. It may become a lifelong hobby, I might eventually sell some (or a lot) of knives, or I might quit after just a few.

I just really started to scratch my head once I got some experience with things at how people were selling their work for such low prices. I mean $60 or $80 for a handmade knife with a sheath?!? That's practically in the range of something mass produced.

I know at my very early level that I'm very slow, and paying more for materials than I would have to if buying smarter and in quantity, and have no sort of production routine going, but selling anything for less than $100 just seems to me to be undervaluing the work that folks are putting into their craft.
 
You'll never get the value of the time you put into a knife out of the sell. Most makers will price a knife by the rarity/expense of the materials in it. Also, I think many times, tool/materials costs used to make the knife (belts, electricity, paper, etc) aren't factored in. They're just eaten in an understanding that that's what it takes. I know that I've spent thousands of dollars on materials and tools over the years just to acquire a decent working shop, and I've got many thousands more to spend to have what I need (and want :) ). I'll likely never see that money returned. As a part time maker, I only sell a knife on occasion, though I'm hoping to be more productive over the next year. That being said, I think it's easier for me to just spend the money needed for supplies and misc. and still believe myself to be making a profit off a knife if I get more than the cost of the steel, handle materials, and a few belts. The 8+ hours doesn't count for me.

Also, I think something to factor into the cost of a blade is the fit and finish. Many of the $60 knives you see are finished pretty roughly with grinder marks still visible and not the best finish on the handles. They are made more quickly and thus don't bring the same $$$. On a knife that I spend a great deal of time hand finishing and working to correct and remove every little flaw, I feel much better about asking a higher price.

--nathan
 
I would think this the worst hobby to try and make money at for avery long time I still try to kid myself on what I have in a knife out of my pocket. If I make a knife for roughly 300 and have 10 12 20 hours in a knife how much do i make if I have 40 in material before the light bill is paid Harry Mathews said it well, you've got to love this--- I make knives cause I can't help it.
 
It is possible to make money making knives.
I make damascus steel for a living, but I make some knives as well. I had one month last year that I was going to be short on, so I made some knives, sold them, and paid the bills.
Maybe I am the octopus in a sea of fishes(no offense meant by this analogy, its just what came to mind), what I do is add up all the materials, and my shop rate x hours into the knife. My shop rate has in it figured utilities and consumables, ie. electric, gas, belts, and that how I price knives.
I like making knives, and damascus, and all the other stuff I do.
I worked a job for 14 years that had no sense of accomplishment at the end of the day. Now I make stuff and I can look back and say "today I made ........."
It feels great.
Del
 
I have heard of 2 ways to price knives. The first is to take your cost of materials (belts, sandpaper etc) multiply it by a factor to account for wear and tear on tools then add your cost per hour for work on a knife. Whilst this seems like a good idea as a new maker you will be taking more time fixing up mistakes, figuring things out etc than you will when you have a few more knives under your belt. As you improve you either start selling your knives for less since you take less time or you start charging more per hour. If you start doing that you end up where you started since you are trying to determine what price will this knife sell at to figure out your hourly rate.

The second way is to say I am going to charge a set rate per inch of blade (say $25) and add that to the base cost of materials. So a 3 inch blade might be $20 materials + $75. Then you can have different rates for levels of finish as well. $20 for a 400 grit belt finish, $25 for a hand rubbed finish and $30 for a mirror finish. You can start charging more as your fit and finish improve. You could try both methods to come up with a price range and sell the knife for a price you are comfortable with.
 
One thing to remember is that newer makers will take much longer to create a piece that someone experience might be able to whip out in much less time. Knifemaking is alot about finding out what needs to be done, trying to perfect the techniques, then working on speeding up that process. A new guy might spend two hours hand sanding out wavy grinds while someone more adept might have a knife come off the grinder that just needs minor work to finish.

Also, some of the sub-100$ knives have alot missing in the pictures. I would guess if those pictures were high-res, you'd see alot of grinder lines left in the blades, spines that showed rough grit finishes, etc. Nothing wrong with that, either!

I personally try to sell my knives at a price where I can move them out of the shop quickly. I don't like having a knife sit for sale for weeks. I'd rather finish it, post it, and ship it a day later. Do I price them too low? Maybe if I needed the cash to put bread on the table.... I always figure that if i'm pricing too low, orders will flood in. Fill those and perhaps next time bump it up a bit. I was once told that you should price your knives at the highest they will sell for, but was once also told that makers with less than 5 years experience should be selling almost at-cost to just get their name out there. Go figure...some makers with 5 years experience are putting out knives that are nicer than some more experienced makers and some experienced makers have found a niche with lower-priced knives and developed a way to produce them in much higher volume.
 
I once heard a maker say,

" If I won the lottery, I would keep making knives until all the money was gone"

This is a classic :D Can't remember who said it.
 
Haha don...so true. I would blow it all on an air hammer, CNC and milling machines.
The other 40,000,000 would probably go to belts for the KMG and a few tons of 1084 and W2...and one of your knives.
 
I read that a famous maker once said, "the best way to become a millionaire making knives is to start with 2 million."

Some advice given to me is that the market will dictate your prices. Ask a price, if you don't sell, lower the price; if you're getting flooded, raise the price.

Basically I look at a maker in about the same niche I'm in, compare materials and finish and price accordingly. Seems to work for me.

I know that pricing is probably harder for me than making the dang knife. My teacher says I don't charge enough but down here I'm surrounded by people that have $2000 scopes on their rifles and use $15 knives. :( I tried working at a few gun/knife shows but really couldn't handle dealing with the people anymore.
 
I aksed one of our fellow forumites who is a dealer what a smith of my experience level should be cahrging and he told me that the market would bear $175 for a basic forged hunter with a sheath, etc. I adjust up slightly for knives with more expensive handle materials and down accordingly for knives that don't have sheaths. Suffice to say that the Brits love me because my stuff is so cheap by their standards:D
 
Just to add to what Don said I had a maker tell me when I started "The best way to get 1 million dollars making knives is to start with 2 million"
 
Good points by all! I haven't really bought many knives in the range I'm talking about, so the point about fit and finish is a strong possibility. I do see some that look a little rough, but I also see some that at least appear to be nice in pictures...a lot more so probably in the $100-125 range than below. The few in that range that I have purchased are very nice.

I think I also may overestimate the amount of time required by someone good to produce a nice blade. In my mind, it must take 10-20+ hours, and $20-40 in materials (not counting tools and consumables), to put out a nice knife, but perhaps that's not true?

Finally, although my skill set does not yet match, I'm a bit of a perfectionist and sometimes I forget that not everyone spends the same amount of time or effort that I would on making something 'perfect'. For many 'normal' people, good enough is just that...good enough.
 
It does normally take at MINIMUM 10-20+ hours to finish a knife. But as mentioned the market will not bear $20-$40/hr prices from all makers. Fit and finish and performance are important even at the cheaper levels, this will get your name known as a good desirable maker. Then you may start selling more and if you are lucky you can slowly begin to raise your prices. I have not made it there yet. Will I?? I hope so but I will make knives as long as my body allows me to or I pass from this life, which ever comes first.
 
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