Questions about how makers price their knives

At my skill level (pretty entry level), I end up spending around 8-12 hours on a blade before it goes out. I think what takes me the most time is that I can't stop messing with the knife (hand finishing, sharpening, polishing, more hand sanding) and let the thing go :D.

--nathan
 
I simply love making knives, it is the best way to destress. I am fortunate enough to have a job where I am rewarded with, expected to, take time off when it is quiet. They appreciate my relaxed attitude and focus after a period over a belt machine.

I have, over the months, compiled a spreadsheet that I include. Whilst the costs differ from everywhere else, what is key is your time. I skimped on belts and when one snapped I had to redo the edge and polish. Get it right first time.

Not quite as cheap as chinese?

Selling hmm, two to date, a few for presents but giving a handmade blade to a client really makes things more personal in business. A long way to make it to the point of handing in notice on my job.
 
One thing that is very important, for a maker as well as a knife buyer, is to be able to recognize the difference between a knife that is being sold for $60.00 and a $60.00 knife. There are some very good makers that are selling their knives at a price well below what they could be receiving. Their reasons for doing this are their own and a well kept secret.

There is another joke that made the rounds a few years ago and was likely based in some truth.

"What is the difference between a knifemaker and a large pizza? A large pizza can feed a family of four."

This is a unique "occupation" in my opinion. Where else will your customers call you "lousy business men", tell you that your work is under priced, tell you not to take a deposit even on special orders, tell you to just sell a special order to someone else if the original customer reneges on the purchase, complain if you are late even when they have no investment in the knife nor do they feel any obligation to buy it and then ask you for a discount off your price while at the same time wondering how you make a living making knives.:D
 
I sell my knives for what the market will bring, that said I was probably making 5 bucks an hour on my forged monosteel blades, now that I am making damascus, and wrought/steel composite blades I'm lucky if I make 1/10th of that. When I get orders for custom blades then I get to charge better. I make the knives I want to make, and sell them for what I can get. If I get better, get a bigger positive reputation, maybe an ABS stamp I can probably charge more, If I get desperate since I don't have a dayjob, I may do a bunch of stock removal knives, Ican make a lot more per hour on those, but that's the equivalent of switching from playing classic rock and blues which I do for fun to hip hop, rap, or opera which I detest but could make a lot more money at.
-Page
 
*lament*
for instance, i put a couple hunters in the for sale forum the other day
trying to get $150 ea

you would cry if i told you what that works out to as an hourly rate (forget about materials)


*/lament*

I just look at it as part of the process. One day it will get better
 
I managed to keep positive financial ballance for a year, but the pure profit was close to the zero. I spend a lot on tools and materials and probably underprice my knives a bit. But I love to make knives...
 
:D I LOVE this!!!! I have a short-list of makers that I would love to see a similar spreadsheet from. Bless you!
Oh, I could start listing the names, but I believe in the free market and am also guilty of waking up sticky broke and confused after getting raped by a hyped maker.


Tim-Gabz said:
I have, over the months, compiled a spreadsheet that I include. Whilst the costs differ from everywhere else, what is key is your time. I skimped on belts and when one snapped I had to redo the edge and polish. Get it right first time.

.
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OregonEdge said:
:D I LOVE this!!!! I have a short-list of makers that I would love to see a similar spreadsheet from. Bless you!
Oh, I could start listing the names, but I believe in the free market and am also guilty of waking up sticky broke and confused after getting raped by a hyped maker.
Click to expand...

Spreadsheets hide a LOT of costs and priceless years of experience that are worth more than the materials and straight time spent in the shop.

If a mastersmith with 40 years experience only takes 20 minutes to forge out a blade, that 20 minutes is worth a hell of a lot more than the 2 hours a new guys spends to forge out a similar blade.
 
"reputation" is important... there are some great makers out there, both in the quality of their work, and heart. Many ethical makers try to find a balance between their level of success (how they should be rewarded for that), paying bills, and making their knives available to as many collectors as they can at a fair price. Others are well aware of their "reputation" as it pertains to "hype" and exploit the market as much as they can regardless of what's fair or who is able to pay the tab for it. And don't get me wrong, god bless the USA and the free market. However, I have far more respect for makers who maintain a healthy balance, and let the secondary market have all the fun with hyping the value of their knives. I think that makers who maintain this balance, make a lot morer connections with the real people who buy and keep the knives. Thus, they last longer. There are exceptions to every rule....

But you are wise to be considering your $ wisely. In the long run, it can also be a good return on your $ to support some lessor known makers


P J 234 said:
I hope this is an appropriate topic...if not, I apologize in advance!

I'm just getting into this as a hobby and seeing how much time, work, materials, tools, etc. it takes to make a knife (at least at my level.) I surf the makers for sale area almost every day, and I am constantly seeing what appear to be great, well made knives for sale in a rough range of say $60-$150. Most of the time this even includes a handmade sheath in the deal.

I realize that you can only charge what the market (and perhaps your reputation?) will allow, but how can someone possibly be making money...heck, not even loosing money...selling knives at these prices?

I'm thinking not only about one's time, but also about the cost of materials. I know the materials are not hugely expensive on a per knife basis, but if you consider the cost of the steel, wood, adhesive, electricity, grinder belts, sandpaper, gas for the forge, leather, thread, tools, etc., and everything else that goes into making a knife, how are people doing this?

Thanks for humoring me!
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David Schott said:
Spreadsheets hide a LOT of costs and priceless years of experience that are worth more than the materials and straight time spent in the shop.

If a mastersmith with 40 years experience only takes 20 minutes to forge out a blade, that 20 minutes is worth a hell of a lot more than the 2 hours a new guys spends to forge out a similar blade.
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I'm not talking about the experience of a MS or the reward they are due. I can't get specific, but I'm refering to extreme cases. Folders that cost $500 to make from a maker with less than a few years experience, no affiliations with any association, and selling direct for $3000 and up. and in more than 1 case, using all CNC. And, when you consider the small makers out there who makes $300 a knife and then reinvests to stock his shop fully (often at the expense of barely paying bills)... compared to the $3000 maker who (in at least one case) doesn't invest a thing in the hobby and just uses someone else's equipment????
 
David Schott said:
Spreadsheets hide a LOT of costs and priceless years of experience that are worth more than the materials and straight time spent in the shop.

If a mastersmith with 40 years experience only takes 20 minutes to forge out a blade, that 20 minutes is worth a hell of a lot more than the 2 hours a new guys spends to forge out a similar blade.
Click to expand...

The spread sheet only tells what this person values thier time and resources at. This number will and should vary extensivly by maker. A maker who has spent years mastering thier craft would, I expect, price thier time at a higher number than would a newb. While it is cool to see the spread sheet, it would be meaningless if applied to another smith. Steven
 
David Schott said:
Spreadsheets hide a LOT of costs and priceless years of experience that are worth more than the materials and straight time spent in the shop.

If a mastersmith with 40 years experience only takes 20 minutes to forge out a blade, that 20 minutes is worth a hell of a lot more than the 2 hours a new guys spends to forge out a similar blade.
Click to expand...

it was really enlightening at Ashokan 2 years ago watching Kevin Cashen and Tim Zowada each forge a blade in 10 minutes when we asked them to "show us how it's done" I think one of them did it in 5 heats, one in 6 or 7, no I don't remember which was which. Changed my whole approach to forging.

-Page
 
I consistently make a profit on my knives, because I value my time at about 32 cents per hour. That way I know I'll always come out money ahead...:D
Seriously - I hope to make enough to be able to support my knifemaking habit, and that's about it. Sometimes I meet that mark and sometimes I don't, but it's always o.k. because dammit all I'm a knifemaker. You just gotta love makin' knives - the real enjoyment is making something really good, truly "by hand", and seeing someone else get real enjoyment out of it.:cool:
 
If you want to make money, treat it like a business, outsource things you aren't equipped to handle well and setup a production like environment, you can make money but it'll be a JOB, with pretty heavy duty investment requirements(training and/or equipment).

If you spend the time on each knife to learn something new, you surely aren't going to make any money for the first decade or two, if you spend the time perfecting one method of work, you will become profitable quickly(a few years).

Since I already have a home business I decided I would only give away knives, it just works out better that way for me(makes me happy) rather than trying to make it work financially.
 
I believe it was Cleston Sinyard who said, " If I won the lottery and had a million dollars, I'd keep on makin' knives until it was all gone."

Make knives for fun. Sell them to afford to make more knives. If you are lucky, someday you will sell more than you spend ( but it is not likely).
Stacy
 
I remember one time years ago reading about a maker who was I believe in his 80's at the time who had made knives for many many years and sold them at fairs, craft shows, etc. The knives were very crudely made out of old band saw blades if memory serves me right and he used Hickory for handles. He wrote messages and quotes on the handles with a woodburner tool and just wrapped them in craft paper with no sheath. Sold them for like $5-$10.00 and had made many thousand sales doing this. His customers got what they wanted at an affordable price and he made a living doing what he loved.
Sometimes, especially with all the cheap chinese knives getting of much better quality these days, we the custom knifemaker might want to charge a little less and work a little more to insure we can make this hobby/job/way of life actually profitable.
Let's look at it this way. Which is better? Sell 1 knife a month at $500.00 or 5 at $150.00? Yes, it's only $250.00 more but, isn't more money and sells good? As long as you make a profit and don't start going into the red it's better to sell 5 than 1 in this instance.
At least that's the way I look at it......... I'm probably wrong.....
 
pricing knives , something I hate. The way I do it is ,I look at it and say " how much would I pay for this knife with sheath ? " , once I have an idea , I subtract $25 or so. ;)

Doing it as a hobby , I try to make it feel like a hobby. It's nice to be able to give someone more value for their $$ . I have sold knives and had people who get them email to tell me I am selling them too cheap. I don't feel comfortable charging more so I don't.

To the makers who can come right out of the gate and make darn good money , god bless them.

Also consider , just cause a maker is new to the forums or new to you , doesn't mean he wasn't supplying his friends with knives for a couple years before he decided to start selling them.

and here I thought I was the only one who struggled with pricing. :)
 
I work on about six Knives at a time. If they were all the same design and I used the exact same materials for each knife when all six were done I'd probably have six different prices. I might even scrap one or two of them. Even though I started out with the same master pattern for those knives as you go about grinding, drilling, heat treating,cussing, etc. each one is built by hand and no two will ever be alike.

With that said I usually take the cost to make and then multiply it by a factor of two to two and half depending on the fit and finish. Time doesn't even factor in to it for me. I'm doing what I enjoy doing and I don't have anyone telling me how to do it. That is how I get paid for my time.

I do try to keep a special project on the side that breaks up the tasks (currently working on a slipjont) if everything comes out the way I hope I might charge as much as three times the cost of material. These little projects usually take me a lot longer to finish and I might use materials that I wouldn't normally work with.
 
John T Wylie Jr said:
It's nice to be able to give someone more value for their $$ . I have sold knives and had people who get them email to tell me I am selling them too cheap. I don't feel comfortable charging more so I don't.

. :)
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I wish more makers shared your philosophy... I know, God bless the makers who make big $, because this IS the USA. I just have more respect for makers that try to maintain a healthy balance and give back to the hobby
 
Most of them makers that price their knives around 60-150 are primarily hobbiest or part time makers, which means they either are just concerned about the joy of it or either a extra means of a lil extra cash.

Full-time professional makers generally have a pricing structure that insures their prices will be good enough for them to make a living and at the same time, reasonable. These are the guys you see that have their knives priced in the 1,000-5,000+ range.

Pricing structures are usually based on materials, machining, any embellishment, size of knife, type, electricity, quality, reputation, type of grind, sheath/stand, labor, etc. But even proffesional knifemakers get around..say, 10-12 dollars per hour. You ain't getting rich off of knifemaking, you gotta love it.
 
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