Questions about knives

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k-spar

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Jun 8, 2007
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My fixed blade knife right now is a Mora. I love it, but I baton wood a lot when making fires, and after learning that it's not a full tang it sort of worries me that I will break it. So now I want a knife with a full tang.

So I've read a lot of the threads here, especially the top 5 survival knives thread, and narrowed down my choices. Here are what I'm looking at currently:

Fallkniven F1
Bark River North Star
Ranger RD4
Ontario RAT-3

Now, I'm new to knives, and don't know much about steel or grinds, but I've been reading a bit. So here are some questions. I realize that these have answers like "X is better for this, while Y is better for this" but that's what I'm looking for.

Scandi grind or Flat grind?
VG10, D2, 1095, A-2 Tool, or 5160? What are the strengths and weaknesses of these steels?
Size? I'm thinking 4 inches is about right for blade length, at least it seems good on my Mora. I don't chop with knives, but I do like to have enough blade to baton it through a good sized piece of wood.

Here are some of the uses these knives will see lots of:
batoning
mag-stick scraping (back of knife of course)
woodwork (traps, carving)
skinning and gutting
rope work

The way I'm leaning right now is towards the Fallkniven. I like my Mora, and it seems like this is just a step up from it. Too bad that the handle isn't more like the Mora's though.

But I want a knife that will put up with some hard use. Not as a pry-bar or anything, but I definitely want it to be able to baton all day and not worry about it failing on me.
 
Check out Bark River Knives and Tool. They have some of the best hard use knives around.
 
k-spar said:
But I want a knife that will put up with some hard use. Not as a pry-bar or anything, but I definitely want it to be able to baton all day and not worry about it failing on me.
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I applaud you for not being afraid to admit you have some things to learn about knives -- that's why we're here, after all! :thumbup:

Personally, when I move to a new 'style' of knife, I try to start with a tried-and-true classic in that style and then use that knowledge to 'build up' to a more expensive specialty item. In your case, you might consider something like a Ka-Bar -- the short 5" blade variety can be had for about $50 including shipping from the major knife e-tailers and eBay vendors. Or, since you like your Mora, perhaps you could get a quality Scandi model from Helle, Jaarvenpaa, or Marttiini.

My personal all-around faves are my Eriksson Mora 2000, Ka-Bar 'classic' (7" blade with leather washer grip), and Marttiini carbon steel puukko. The Ka-Bar was the most expensive at $50; the others were closer to $40 including shipping.

Ragweed Forge has a great selection of outdoor knives and the propietor, Ragnar, has a great rep on this forum.
 
I've been doing research in a similar vein recently. My top choices so far are the F1 & Benchmade 151 Fixed Griptilian. I'll cut & paste what I got from a few sites on knife steel (I am certainly no expert):

VG10: in the same class as 154CM (or ATS 34) however has better edge stability and offers superior corrosion resistance and extended edge retention. 154CM is a direct upgrade to 440C, a good steel in its own right.

D2 [I was quite interested in it]: very high wear resistance due to the carbide content which also lowers machinablity and grindability. D2 however doesn't have the corrosion resistance of martensitic stainless steels. nice steel for fine cutting blades, at moderate sharpening angles, and especially for coarse finishes. resistance to impact is also low. superb edge holding ability and unmatched wear resistance, but lacks toughness. not as corrosion resistant as 440C or ATS-34. Usually used for extreme use knives. It has a reputation of "holding an edge forever, and being impossible to sharpen." Most people cannot sharpen D2 in the field, or without motorized equipment. High chromium content, but not officially "stainless." [I decided against the Ontario RATs because this steel didn't seem to be what I was looking for.]

1095: High carbon steel. Not stainless at all. Very dependent on heat treatment. has moderate wear resistance and good to high impact toughness. 1095 is sort of the "standard" carbon steel, not too expensive and performs well. It is reasonably tough and holds an edge very well. It rusts easily.

A-2: tougher than D-2 with less wear resistance. compromise between wear resistance & toughness. 5% chromium - A2 is not stainless and must be properly cared for to prevent corrosion. will get screaming sharp and is a good choice for larger knives where toughness is important

5160: good wear resistance, known for toughness. used in bigger blades. used for hard use knives (hardened up near the 60s Rc).

As for grind, the scandi grind seems regular for Europe, but not in the States, & you'll be hard-pressed to find a quality production knife fro here with it. Favored I think because it's easy to sharpen on a flat stone.
 
I don't think you will go far wrong with any of your choices. The RAT3 is thinner than the others and is a great cutter but obviously not quite as tough ( still plenty tough though ).
The RD4 is probably the toughest of the bunch and is built like a tank but the standard grind and steel stock make it not quite as good a cutter although you can request it in 3/16" stock !
TOPS knives also make plenty of options in this size range, they are mostly made of 1095 and are as tough as hell !
 
Keep using the mora and buy a few extras. You have not broken it yet and that is a good sign you have decent technique, which is the real key to batoning. When it comes to a hardworking knife for woodworking you really cannot get better than a sharp mora. At the price they cost you could have a drawer full for the price of some of the knives you are considering.

If you want the best choice from the list you have mentioned, I would go with Fallkniven F1.
 
thanks for the replies guys, very helpful.

MG_Saldivar said:
Personally, when I move to a new 'style' of knife, I try to start with a tried-and-true classic in that style and then use that knowledge to 'build up' to a more expensive specialty item. In your case, you might consider something like a Ka-Bar -- the short 5" blade variety can be had for about $50 including shipping from the major knife e-tailers and eBay vendors. Or, since you like your Mora, perhaps you could get a quality Scandi model from Helle, Jaarvenpaa, or Marttiini.

My personal all-around faves are my Eriksson Mora 2000, Ka-Bar 'classic' (7" blade with leather washer grip), and Marttiini carbon steel puukko. The Ka-Bar was the most expensive at $50; the others were closer to $40 including shipping.

Ragweed Forge has a great selection of outdoor knives and the propietor, Ragnar, has a great rep on this forum.
Click to expand...

That ragweed forge site is quite useful, especially all the info on grinds and the like. I think Scandi is definitely what I'm looking for. I looked at Ka-Bars, but they're really not my style. The other scandi style models are definitely something to consider though.

I don't think I'm really looking for a new 'style' of knife, I want to keep the same basic principles of the Mora, just upgrade the durability. I'm willing to spend around 100 bucks if it's got everything I want, and not compromise for something cheaper.

Tiger Dude said:
I've been doing research in a similar vein recently. My top choices so far are the F1 & Benchmade 151 Fixed Griptilian. I'll cut & paste what I got from a few sites on knife steel (I am certainly no expert):
Click to expand...

Thanks a bunch for these, and glad someone's in the same boat :)

ashtxsniper said:
I would recommend the Falkniven A1 1st, S1 2nd, then the F1 3rd.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've been looking at those too. Is the only difference between them the length? It looks like the blade shape is slightly different as well, but I'm not sure what that would effect in practical terms. Also, why would you recommend them in that order?
 
pitdog said:
TOPS knives also make plenty of options in this size range, they are mostly made of 1095 and are as tough as hell !
Click to expand...

thanks for the recommendation, they look good, but have a slightly more tactical style than what I'm looking for.

tomcrx said:
Keep using the mora and buy a few extras. You have not broken it yet and that is a good sign you have decent technique, which is the real key to batoning. When it comes to a hardworking knife for woodworking you really cannot get better than a sharp mora. At the price they cost you could have a drawer full for the price of some of the knives you are considering.

If you want the best choice from the list you have mentioned, I would go with Fallkniven F1.
Click to expand...

I am about to buy another one as a backup, because I love it. But I don't plan on carrying both with me at the same time, and if I'm on a longer trip I'd hate to have it bust and not have a replacement. Great utility knives though, I'll definitely keep 2 or more around for general use and hunting.
 
This custom Nessie of mine has a Scandi grind and falls within your budget !
JohnDean098.jpg

Check out Dan Kosters site !
 
I wouldn't want a Scandi grind for batoning. Rather a convex or flat grind.

The Fällkniven F1 is a good knife, and would likely serve you well. It is, however, a bit thick for precise woodworking, compared to the thinner Scandinavian traditional designs. Probably not too thick for your tastes, by the sound of it, though. :)

The Ranger RD4 is one hell of a stout knife. Out of those four you list, it's by far the toughest, and if you're looking for a knife that you probably cannot break whatever you do to it, then RD4 is that knife. Due to its thickness and weight, it's not the best precise cutter, but it will sure eat wood up as a baton.
 
Sounds kinda like you need a small hatchet like a BRK&T Mini Axe to supplement your knife.

nessmucktrio.JPG


This is a light weight, do all trio.
It does Nessmuck one better as far as weight.

As you can see I use a BRK&T Northstar. One of the knives on your list.
 
I would recommend a trio of tools.
Big combo: Fallkniven A1, F1 and a multitool
Medium combo: Fallkniven S1, WM1 and/or multitool

The A1 can be replaced by a folding saw. And just by coincidence I happen to have a picture of such combo http://hem.passagen.se/nodh/trio.jpg

I know the nessmuk combo is a 4" fixed, a 3" folder and an axe and it is nothing wrong with that if you go Nessmuk all the way. however, I feel that a small folder is inadequate if you need to fix anything that is not hand made from the forest. People talk about wire for snares, hooks and such and some things are actually screwed together. If you bring things made by machines into the forest you need to bring tools made by machines too. A multitool can fix that. I really like the axe too, but uninexperienced weekend campers will probably end up chopping themselves so then a folding saw might be safer. One other thing is with children, It takes longer time to get hurt on a saw.

So in short, buy all four of them and play around with them. Pick two, wear one and place the other in your pack as spare.
 
pitdog said:
This custom Nessie of mine has a Scandi grind and falls within your budget !
JohnDean098.jpg

Check out Dan Kosters site !
Click to expand...

nice knife! I think I want to stick with something production for now though, I'd feel bad abusing something that's custom made ;)

Elen said:
I wouldn't want a Scandi grind for batoning. Rather a convex or flat grind.

The Fällkniven F1 is a good knife, and would likely serve you well. It is, however, a bit thick for precise woodworking, compared to the thinner Scandinavian traditional designs. Probably not too thick for your tastes, by the sound of it, though. :)

The Ranger RD4 is one hell of a stout knife. Out of those four you list, it's by far the toughest, and if you're looking for a knife that you probably cannot break whatever you do to it, then RD4 is that knife. Due to its thickness and weight, it's not the best precise cutter, but it will sure eat wood up as a baton.
Click to expand...

I've used the Mora for batoning for a while, and it was fine for my purposes, I'm just wary of the stick tang. I think I may get the F1, and then a RD6 just to cover the bases.

riddleofsteel said:
Sounds kinda like you need a small hatchet like a BRK&T Mini Axe to supplement your knife.

nessmucktrio.JPG


This is a light weight, do all trio.
It does Nessmuck one better as far as weight.

As you can see I use a BRK&T Northstar. One of the knives on your list.
Click to expand...

How do you like the Northstar? It seems very similar to the F1, and the price is similar as well right? I'm still debating between these two, but I think I prefer the more spartan looks of the F1.

nodh said:
I would recommend a trio of tools.
Big combo: Fallkniven A1, F1 and a multitool
Medium combo: Fallkniven S1, WM1 and/or multitool

The A1 can be replaced by a folding saw. And just by coincidence I happen to have a picture of such combo http://hem.passagen.se/nodh/trio.jpg

I know the nessmuk combo is a 4" fixed, a 3" folder and an axe and it is nothing wrong with that if you go Nessmuk all the way. however, I feel that a small folder is inadequate if you need to fix anything that is not hand made from the forest. People talk about wire for snares, hooks and such and some things are actually screwed together. If you bring things made by machines into the forest you need to bring tools made by machines too. A multitool can fix that. I really like the axe too, but uninexperienced weekend campers will probably end up chopping themselves so then a folding saw might be safer. One other thing is with children, It takes longer time to get hurt on a saw.

So in short, buy all four of them and play around with them. Pick two, wear one and place the other in your pack as spare.
Click to expand...

I definitely will be carrying a LM wave on me as well (or possibly juice CS4) so I'll have a multitool, and both have saws on them. The saw I'd use for most of my cutting, and only really need a hatchet for splitting then. Which is why I want a knife that will baton reliably, so I can cut my load down to 2 tools.
 
I have a RAT 3 in 1095 that I am very pleased with, IMO it is a very good size, weight and thickness to be a good compromise between cutting ability and toughness. I think any of the knives you named would be great for the jobs described. As would lots of older knives that have fallen out of favor, Case, Schrade, Marbles, and Queen as well as others make very good woods knives that might fit your criteria and be traditional, which seems to be something you are looking for. Chris
 
runningboar said:
I have a RAT 3 in 1095 that I am very pleased with, IMO it is a very good size, weight and thickness to be a good compromise between cutting ability and toughness. I think any of the knives you named would be great for the jobs described. As would lots of older knives that have fallen out of favor, Case, Schrade, Marbles, and Queen as well as others make very good woods knives that might fit your criteria and be traditional, which seems to be something you are looking for. Chris
Click to expand...

I would like something somewhat traditional, but function over form is the priority. The synthetic handles are more appealing to me than leather or wood.
 
A Bark River in A2 would be ideal, IMHO. You've listed the Northstar, which is a great model, and one of my favorites.

But the BRKT model I would choose first for what you list is the Canadian Special. The Northstar is not the best for hunting (skinning and gutting on your list), but will do well with everything else. The CS will do it all.

I recommend these three dealers for Bark river purchases - they're all great guys, and each will bend over backwards to make sure you're happy with your knife:

KnivesShipFree

DLT Trading

McKnight cutlery

:thumbup:
 
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