questions for the woodchucks

Last Visible Canary

Last Visible Canary

actively parsing hurf durf
Joined
Nov 28, 2006
Messages
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first question:
I'm looking for a clear coating for wood handles that will completely seal
them and provide a wear surface that isn't wood. the only thing I've done
so far is on a Siamese rosewood handle refinish/reshaping project, where
I used what I had on hand - McCloskey marine Spar Varnish in satin finish.
I assumed that being a marine varnish it would hold up to environmental
changes and wear. but when I started thinking about it, I started to
wonder about the biocompatability of varnishes and lacquer's in general
since they are next to the hand and covered in sweat for (at times) long
periods. what is the difference between wiping, alkyd, phenolic and
polyurethane varnishes as they relate to and knife handles? are any of them
not safe for use in long term skin contact situations?

what is the most complete protection for wood handles that is
biocompatable?

(the marine varnish handle:
IMG_5184.jpg
,
a nice tacky finish)

second question:
do beetles eat wood or live in it? after letting some beech sit seperated and
sealed in a box away from the rest of my stock because it had worm holes in
it from the seller, I found that there was at least one beetle present (which I
squished). very small, but I was curious whether it was eating it, or
burrowing, because if the beetles are eating it it's kinda pointless just to
quarantine it, I'd rather actively seek the bugs out to stop them from living
there permanently.

third question:
how do you go about choosing a wood for use in high shock handles? specifically
in hidden tang khukuries or choppers, and in axes/hatchets/hammers.

there is a really cool website wood picking search thing that can be found here:
http://www.woodbin.com/calcs/wdpick.htm

the pertinent criteria for axe handles seeming to be:
Weight, Hardness, Stiffness, Strength, bending, Shock resistance, Decay resistance,
and Stability

but of them, I'm not sure what is critical and what isn't. it would seem that shock resistance
and strength would be the two most important, so that it won't crack on impact, and it can
bear heavy weight when being pushed back at impact. I assume that decay resistance can
be handled with heavy finishing. but does hardness, stiffness, bending, and stability come into
play in such an important way that they are necessary deciding factors?

as an example, yellow birch is high on the list when searching for shock resistance, but it's
weight and strength are stated as medium. would yellow birch be a good axe handle based
solely on the shock resistance criteria?
 
I think you'll find that few makers use clear coat on knife handles (with the exception of cyanoacrylate). Most times you want to preserve the look and feel of the wood. For this, a penetrating oil works very well to protect and preserve the wood.

If you are worried about durability (especially for softer species), stabilization (resin impregnation) is the best bet.


For shock resistance, nothing beats Lignum Vitae (Guaiacum sp.). The interlocking grain is incredibly tough. It is even used for mallet heads and bearings. You'll pay a pretty penny for something as large as an axe handle, though (and it would be heavy as hell).

Phillip
 
I choose between three finishes, for a chopper or handle that will be used alot and maybe sweaty I use oil, teak generally, tung sometimes and boiled linseed sometimes. Teak seems to penetrate more, tung better looking, boiled linseed a harder surface finish.

If it is a folder or small knife that will not be handled for long periods of time I use Hut Crystal Coat, you melt it on with a buffer and its a real hard finish mixture of shellac, wax and alcohol.

for just looks I use a wipe on polyurthane, I don't trust this to be a good working finish but sure looks good.

All are done in at least 3 coats or more
for high shock handles I first would choose desert ironwood, as the name implies there is no tougher. I believe it performs well in all these areas "Weight, Hardness, Stiffness, Strength, bending, Shock resistance, Decay resistance,
and Stability".. I usually only do desert ironwood in a teak oil finish.
 
Most of the hawks I see use some version of maple. If that's any measure.

The traditional hard working tool handle wood was hickory. That stuff was damn near indestructible. Most all of the old farm tools and draft animal drawn implements were constructed with it. Tough stuff! Also, it seems to decay at a similarly slow rate as the iron and steel does on the implements you sometimes find it attached to abandoned in fields and woods.

I noticed you didn't mention aesthetics in your line up, so maybe hickory could meet your needs?
 
Farmer Phil said:
Most of the hawks I see use some version of maple. If that's any measure.
Click to expand...

If you use maple, be sure to use Eastern Maple (Acer Sacharum). It is much harder and more durable than Western Bigleaf Maple (A. Macrophyllum).

Phillip

p.s. Ironwood would work very well too; but is hard to get in large, defect-free, billets.
 
Farmer Phil said:
I noticed you didn't mention aesthetics in your line up, so maybe hickory could meet your needs?
Click to expand...

it's not to a certain extent. In almost any species of wood there will be choice peices that are beautiful for what they are. though, I tend to like wood that is striking for one reason or another, be it color, contrast or grain pattern. wich is why I'm not a huge fan of maple, it's kind of a ground level wood to gauge other woods off of, either harder softer, lighter darker. for some reason I just don't like the look of standard, curly, birds eye or burl in maple.

BUT, i'd be perfectly happy to use it if I have it (I have two 2x2x18" peices). I was mostly curious because I have several very nice peices of wood, pecan, birch, hickory, bloodwood, katalox, and a fair bit of purpleheart, but I'm not sure if any besides pecan and hickory would be good as striking handles.

When I hear of how hard katalox and lignum vitae are (I just got an awesome deal on ebay from west penn hardwoods for five 2x2x12 peices at 36$ after shipping), I worry that they are potentially more liable to snap when flexed hard. When you slam into a hard knot at full force with a splitting axe, the handle (and your hands) can sustain some decent force.

of course, I can't really afford the harder stuff for long handles, but stuff like birch and beech are fairly cheap in larger stock, and I was curious if there was any atribute that would a type of wood cause them to perform poorly in an impact tool situation.

I'll look into the hut crystal coat.

The reason I want the coating on the wood is for purely utilitarian purposes, since most of what I'll be doing is hard use stuff that doesn't necessarily have to look pretty, but it should perform well under very harsh treatment. I like wood just because I like it, the look, the idea, the organicness of it. If I had the money to buy stuff just for function, I'd have a stock of micarta and a stock of wood, but since I don't make much extra I buy the wood for both pleasure and function.
 
I guess the first question was really 2 questions, what is the most powerful/hard use coating you can put on wood handles that is clear, and more specifically - are there any health risks associated with the coatings once they are completely cured?
 
I'd probably say a CA finish would be among the best. I don't use it, but I'm sure someone will chime in.
 
Last Visible Canary said:
When I hear of how hard katalox and lignum vitae are (I just got an awesome deal on ebay from west penn hardwoods for five 2x2x12 peices at 36$ after shipping), I worry that they are potentially more liable to snap when flexed hard. When you slam into a hard knot at full force with a splitting axe, the handle (and your hands) can sustain some decent force.
Click to expand...

It depends as much on grain structure as density. Cocobolo and ebony are both very dense woods, but while cocobolo performs well in all strength categories, ebony is notoriously brittle.

Phillip
 
When I get new wood handled farm, yard and construction tools one of the first things I often do is sand the finish off the handles so it won't be so slippery to hold and swing. I usually replace it with boiled linseed oil and include regular maintenance in the tools' care. I approach the issue in a similar manner as I do my leather boots.
 
Farmer Phil said:
When I get new wood handled farm, yard and construction tools one of the first things I often do is sand the finish off the handles so it won't be so slippery to hold and swing. I usually replace it with boiled linseed oil and include regular maintenance in the tools' care. I approach the issue in a similar manner as I do my leather boots.
Click to expand...


Funny! that is exactly what i do! i hate the varnish finish on tools! especially on axes and hammers! it is to "sticky" and rubs blisters quick! i like my axe to slide! but i will actually leave them raw on occasion, and don't have them on a maintenance schedule :)

my recommendation is go with hickory. cheap, easy to find and TOUGH! as for the finish, i would go with a couple coats of teak, and finish it off with some boiled linseed. you can mix the linseed with some gum turpentine to get it to penetrate better. i did our oak front door with it, and it is holding up great!
Hope this helps :)
peace
jt




http://jtknives.blogspot.com/
 
Your beetle are living in and eating your wood. There are a few ways to get rid of them, Soak your wood in acetone, this will kill them. Put your wood in a microwave for about a minute. This will pop them like popcorn and kill them also. The microwave may cause other problems with moisture as can the acetone if you have a bleeding wood. If you use Nelsonite or resolute to stabilize your wood, soak it for a couple of days. This will kill them also even better draw a vacuum and stabilize and you'll really get em.
 
firebert said:
It depends as much on grain structure as density. Cocobolo and ebony are both very dense woods, but while cocobolo performs well in all strength categories, ebony is notoriously brittle.

Phillip
Click to expand...

is there a term or an indicator in wood descriptions that would indicate that kind of brittleness? would it be short grain structure, non-interlocking, or ???


for the beetle/s, would getting a syringe and force pushing acetone into the open tunnels do the trick, instead of soaking the entire 4x4x12" peice of beech?
 
Tough, shock resistant handle? Use either hickory
or white ash (used for baseball bats). For finish,
I've used waterlox for 30 years on furniture, handles,
and darn near every thing else. It works well, is easy
to use, repairs and renews well, and won't raise
blisters on your hands.

Hope this helps.

Bill
 
What you are looking for is "shock and impact resistance". I perused my lumber ID book and found a few species that would work. Pecan, hickory and hard maple are good domestics. Suitable exotics include cocobolo, blackwood, a few other rosewoods, lignum vitae, and ipe. I'm betting that osage orange, and ironwood would work well too, but they aren't in my book.

Phillip
 
I use min-wax wipe on poly on all the turkey calls I make. If you are going to use hickory I would I highly reccomend the min-wax. If you really look around you can find some really nice pieces of hickory. I got hold of some fiddleback hickory.Awesome some of the best looking calls I've ever made. Gonna use some for knife handles on the next knife I make.
Jon"Petie"Ross
 
The syringe method would not be completely effective. Are you going to cut the wood into handle blocks or scales?? I have also put some of my handle material into a sealed container with a box of mothballs in it. This would probably work though I did it as a preventative rather than extermination.
 
IMG_5403.jpg

the culprits. from internet searches, these look like powderpost beetles...

How would I go about doing an acetone bath? would I literally have to put the stock
(the beech is big at 4x4x12) into a bath of acetone, or could I wrap an acetone soaked
rag around it?

one of the suggestions for infestation of cabins is to use a sealer all around the wood,
which interupts the next generation of beetles from forming... since the lifespan is roughly
9-12 months, I may just let this sit in a sealed condition for a year or two.

the effected stock
IMG_5405.jpg

IMG_5407.jpg

the stock is going through lots of shrinkage. it may not be easy to see, but these were
originally square and are now shringing tangentially (? if looking at the end grain with the
rings running left to right, it's shrinking inward horizontally) on the inside ring side. I'm
thinking that I'm just gonna let these sit and season for while.

i like the looks of the waterlox marine sealer and finish set, though I'll have to wait a few
paychecks before I can afford both.

and I'm going to go ahead and not order anything from them again.
 
Last edited:
We had a lot of powder post beetle issues on our farm. A borax spray is supposed to help. The product around here is called Hibor, not sure about by you. Its a standard wood treatment and preservative. You need to kill them little buggas (larvae) off as they can eat away at your wood for months and months.
 
would there be any negative effects on the wood if I covered them in a water and borax solution? I ask because timbor, a borax insecticide is pure borax. the instructions are to slather the wood in a 10% solution twice, and inject it into the insect galleries.

if I were to do this 3 or 4 times, then seal it, would there be any negative effects on the wood from the borax salt?

http://www.livingwithbugs.com/timbor.html
 
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