Questions of a born-again "knife guy"

W

Wesk

Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
40
Hello all, today I truly started to learn about fine knives.

A few years back, I had a SOG Flash 2... Didn't like it.
Then a CRKT M16... Crap and lock broke (thankfully, the liner collapsed inwards)

I magically discovered NutNFancy, who conditioned me to believe that Spyderco and Benchmade are the end all be all.

I bought a BM940... Nice knife. $140 knife? I dunno...

But it really hit me when I bought a Spyderco Navaja and the carraca mechanism broke within hours. I was like "This is a $250 MSRP knife, man". Can't wait to get refunded for it.

So I spent today learning about truly high end blades. At first, I was almost lead to believe that it was mainly just CRK and Strider (Sounds familiar)

Slowly I did some delving and I found a lot about other high end knives, and I come to you with some questions.

For $200, what is the absolute best knife you can recommend? (300 is SNG, Seb, and TSF Beast territory, any of which I would love to own)

Are higher end full production knives (BM, Spyderco) really worth their price tags that are almost as much as semicustoms in some cases?

And what kind of price is a certain level of fit and finish really worth? I saw a video of a Chinese company's knives for around $10 each and they were very impressive. On the flip side it seems as if the cost of the Sebenza is based completely off fit and finish.

Thanks!
 
are you talking about that Sanrenmu company from China that sells the $10 knives ? . if so stay away from those,they are not very good knives.they also make counterfeit axis locks.
 
Spyderco Paramilitary 2. Or Kershaw Junkyard Dog II. Much below your price range, but those two are the best knives in ergonomics and value that I've encountered thus far.
 
That's a loaded question, like asking what is the best handgun. It all depends on what you intend to use it for.
If you've had the lock fail on 3 knives, maybe you should have been using a fixed blade knife. Folding are good for a
lot of tasks, but not all tasks. A knife is a tool. Like all tools, proper use and maintence prolong the tools life. Ask yourself
what you use a knife for most often, then research knives that can handle that task.
 
Wesk said:
Hello all, today I truly started to learn about fine knives.

A few years back, I had a SOG Flash 2... Didn't like it.
Then a CRKT M16... Crap and lock broke (thankfully, the liner collapsed inwards)

I magically discovered NutNFancy, who conditioned me to believe that Spyderco and Benchmade are the end all be all.

I bought a BM940... Nice knife. $140 knife? I dunno...

But it really hit me when I bought a Spyderco Navaja and the carraca mechanism broke within hours. I was like "This is a $250 MSRP knife, man". Can't wait to get refunded for it.

So I spent today learning about truly high end blades. At first, I was almost lead to believe that it was mainly just CRK and Strider (Sounds familiar)

Slowly I did some delving and I found a lot about other high end knives, and I come to you with some questions.

For $200, what is the absolute best knife you can recommend? (300 is SNG, Seb, and TSF Beast territory, any of which I would love to own)

Are higher end full production knives (BM, Spyderco) really worth their price tags that are almost as much as semicustoms in some cases?

And what kind of price is a certain level of fit and finish really worth? I saw a video of a Chinese company's knives for around $10 each and they were very impressive. On the flip side it seems as if the cost of the Sebenza is based completely off fit and finish.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

"Worth it" is very subjective. The BM940 is one of my favorite knives. I spent about $500 combined on a pair of limited edition ones (one carbon fiber, one titanium), so obviously I think the 940 is "worth it". Although honestly I'm not a fan of the regular 940 with the aluminum handles - I'd rather spend $300 for another CF or Ti one than $140 for the aluminum (it's not hard anodized, so it gets marked up easily). Of course there's BM's not entirely dissimilar with G-10 handles.

As for any of the other high end production Benchmades (not Gold class) or high end Spydercos, Kershaws/ZTs, I believe they're all worth it, as long as you like the knife. The initial cost might sting, but when you've found the right one, you'll appreciate the higher quality and after a while the sting goes away.

The problem is that finding "the one" can be long and arduous (or even neverending) and expensive.

The Sebenza? Well, that's one of the most asked questions in the history of Bladeforums: is the Sebenza worth it?

There's definitely diminishing returns when you get to the higher end of things. A Spyderco Military isn't twice the knife an Endura is. A Sebenza isn't 6 times the knife. You're paying for refinement, higher quality materials, and (generally speaking) longer lasting edges. On the opposite end, a $30 Byrd or Kershaw or Buck is definitely 3 times the knife of any $10 you'll find, in terms of quality and longevity.

For me, the Sebenza wasn't worth it. But that wasn't due to the cost, just my impression of the knife itself (it was a Regular large). I spent that much and more on other knives that I liked more (but not enough to not eventually sell). But If I had an extra $400 and nothing better to spend it on, I'd love to try an Insingo out. I love the blade profile.
 
Thanks for the replies!

The BM 940 is no doubt a good knife, it's just small things that make me question my purchase- the blade centering is a bit off, i get a "gritty" sound and opening from the axis lock rubbing something badly (I think) and the green/purple is butt ugly.
The little things add up, though! Still, it'll do good work until I find "the one"
I wish there was an outlet I could try those higher end 940s at

I guess the diminishing returns makes sense, especially with the Sebenza. I'd like to try one one day... But then, you hear people going on and on about their Hinderers and such...
Guess it's like headphones, I gotta find my HD595s and avoid the Beats.
 
Wesk said:
The BM 940 is no doubt a good knife, it's just small things that make me question my purchase- the blade centering is a bit off, i get a "gritty" sound and opening from the axis lock rubbing something badly (I think) and the green/purple is butt ugly.
The little things add up, though! Still, it'll do good work until I find "the one"
I wish there was an outlet I could try those higher end 940s at
Click to expand...
Check out the 930. Similar size and edge profile. Much more attractive knife. It wasn't quite my cup of tea, but that's one man's opinion. The CF and Ti 940s (and 941s) were limited editions (500 each) from several years ago. Finding one for sale requires patience and the willingness to spend a bunch. It took me several months to find mine. As for the "gritty" sound, it's not grit, it's just the nature of the mechanism. Every AXIS lock I've had made that sound.

Guess it's like headphones, I gotta find my HD595s and avoid the Beats.
Click to expand...

And I'll keep rocking out on my $13 Sonys. More expensive ones aren't "worth it" to me (not because I don't care how my music sounds, but because I'm harsh on headphones).
 
For less than $200 I would get the Para 2. That knife is hard to beat at any price point. Not that all of them will be perfect, just that it represents an incredible value for your money, it's probably the most feature packed knife there is for the price.
 
I wouldn't rule out Spyderco based solely on the caraca going out in your Navaja. It's a known issue with that particular knife, and people are so vocal about it, but I don't understand why. It doesn't affect lockup, ergonomics, or how the knife cuts things. Spyderco went out on a limb with that particular model and tried something new. Yet you never hear anyone gripe about how their Navaja stopped cutting.

I would say that Spyderco is giving the best bang for the buck right now. Material selection, along with fit and finish are top notch on all of the Spydies I own. If you are looking for a reliable CUTTING tool you would be hard pressed to find a better value. If you're after beefy pocket jewlery then, by all means, save up and buy something else that looks "badass".

-nate
 
You'll quickly find that much of the time, people are willing to pay a premium for a knife purely because they like the design (as opposed to buying a knife for the high quality, good customer service, steel, etc). But there are a lot of things that make a knife expensive, mostly having to do with fit and finish and steel. With regard to your question about the newer Chinese knives, some of them are very nice for the cost. But they won't provide you with the customer service that other companies will, and you're stuck with 8Cr13MoV steel (equivalent to AUS-8). The good ones are comparable to knives costing at most $50, and they're perfectly serviceable and useable. You just have to decide exactly how nice you want your knife to be and how much you're willing to pay for it. For $200, some of my favorites would be the ZT 0550 and 0200 and Spyderco Gayle Bradley.
 
i would say griptilian and use the balls off of it

para 2 and give it time to break in and clean the lock frequiently as it reduces stick also get a sprint cause its better

military i would stay away from ti millies but do what you want once again sprint g10

go to a knife store and play with some stuff and see what you like

and remember use the shizz out of your knives because you will like them more rather than just looking at it for a minute and finding flaws
 
I like the nutnfancy reviews but hes not really reviewing the high end well. Does not look at customs or limited runs from the better manufacturers. He has not for example reviewed the para 2.
 
Save yourself about 500 dollars that you will spend being slightly unsatisfied with every knife you have (Because to be honest the 940 BM series is amazing compared to other 140 knives... Sounds like you got a messed up one cause mine have no gritty pivots, or anything weird like you described) and just buy a CRK because if you can find something you don't like about a CRK, knives just aren't for you ^_^
 
Although it is not in your price range; as you have had three previous locks fail on you, I would say save up for a Sebenza. It is immensely strong, not just because of its design or materials, but because the knife is executed with such precision and care that it has no significant weak points, unlike, for example, a Strider, which because of poor execution, often develops blade play, and fails. There are multiple accounts of this occurring, but I am yet to see a single complaint about the Sebenza. One example I like to give is Medieval cathedrals. It was originally thought that the thicker the walls, the bigger the stones, the sturdier the building would be. That was until someone built with accuracy, using precision cut stones and squaring the walls as best as they could. This was found to be much stronger.

If you cannot afford one though, I would buy a Spyderco M4 Manix 2 or an CTS-XHP Military from Bento Box Shop.
 
Thanks for the detailed replies
I haven't had three locks fail on me, only a CRKT liner. I think I need to take another look at my wording.
EDIT: I see where #2 comes from, The Spyderco Navaja's carraca is a toothed cog and spring arm that creates a sound, rather than a true carraca mechanism.
Don't see #3, but I sure don't trust my fingers to that dinky "omega spring"!

The reason I asked about a $200 knife is because it seems like $200 is a huge price point gap. There aren't any incredibly well regarded folders that I can find at $200
they're either $100-150ish (para2,manix2,grip,940,etc) or $300+ (Seb,Sng,Hind,TSF)

I've been calling up cutlery stores in my area (Thousand Oaks, CA) to see if I can handle some nice knives (Sebenza in particular) but I've had no luck. Two stores today, ones phone number was inactive (what?!) and the other told me they "don't deal with *pocket* knives" in the snootiest way possible when I asked about folders.

Ive been looking more and the Hinderer XM-18 has caugh my eye... But it's apparently near impossible to get and I hear from spyderco forums that people like to buy them and flip them for a profit.
I've been thinking of (attempting) becoming a LEO early as C college classes here are impacted and I'm spending semesters with ~9 units, being able to get an XM-18 would be another nice perk.

I really appreciate all these answers, guys!
 
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Nah you can get an XM-18 in like a minute. Just know which websites to buy from; same with a Sebenza if you check the right online retailers at the right times.

XM-18 is gonna run anywhere from 400-580ish and honestly, anywhere in that range is about right most of the time; as they are not mass produced and that means it's about supply / demand / location.
 
Wesk said:
I gotta find my HD595s and avoid the Beats.
Click to expand...

Sometimes less expensive knives are made with the same materials as higher end knives, they just aren't executed as well. HD555's are literally the exact same speaker assembly as the HD595, but they put sound absorbing foam around the ear cup to make it sound less "open"--and the 555's are less expensive than the 595's.

There really are differences between a Sebenza and other knives made of similar materials, but it's hard to see at first. Kinda like using high end headphones to listen to 96-128 kbit mp3's on an iPod compared to FLAC files with a good amp. Some people don't have the ears to tell the difference between lossless and lossy formats, while others will claim that it's a world of difference. A lot of it is simply having the refinement to appreciate the difference.

But the majority of people won't recognize or even care about the difference.
 
Lots of fun in this hobby. Excellent knives today in
many different price ranges. You will have a blast
deciding what to get next.

piney 12
 
Wesk said:
Thanks for the detailed replies
I haven't had three locks fail on me, only a CRKT liner. I think I need to take another look at my wording.
EDIT: I see where #2 comes from, The Spyderco Navaja's carraca is a toothed cog and spring arm that creates a sound, rather than a true carraca mechanism.
Don't see #3, but I sure don't trust my fingers to that dinky "omega spring"!

The reason I asked about a $200 knife is because it seems like $200 is a huge price point gap. There aren't any incredibly well regarded folders that I can find at $200
they're either $100-150ish (para2,manix2,grip,940,etc) or $300+ (Seb,Sng,Hind,TSF)

I've been calling up cutlery stores in my area (Thousand Oaks, CA) to see if I can handle some nice knives (Sebenza in particular) but I've had no luck. Two stores today, ones phone number was inactive (what?!) and the other told me they "don't deal with *pocket* knives" in the snootiest way possible when I asked about folders.

Ive been looking more and the Hinderer XM-18 has caugh my eye... But it's apparently near impossible to get and I hear from spyderco forums that people like to buy them and flip them for a profit.
I've been thinking of (attempting) becoming a LEO early as C college classes here are impacted and I'm spending semesters with ~9 units, being able to get an XM-18 would be another nice perk.

I really appreciate all these answers, guys!
Click to expand...

Have you looked at the ZT 550 Hinderer designed knives? They go for about $200 and have CPM-S35VN steel. The 551 is about $250 due to Elmax steel. 560/561 ZT Hinderers are around $260 and are Elmax also.
 
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