QuikClot

kycolonel said:
Jeff,

Thanks for the link to Chinook. I have QuikClot in my first aid and BOB kits, but after doing some reading about it am still unclear on when and when not to use it. I have heard it should only be used for the most serious bleeding, since it is very difficult to clean it out of a wound once used. For example, if you were in a survival situation and say received a deep puncture to the hand (not life threatening) should you try and dress it with traditional means before breaking out the QuickClot? Or, does it all really depend on the environment you are in?
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There are WAY more qualified people here to answer that but my approach is to use pressure and normal means first. If that doesn't stop it and the bleeding doesn't slow then go to a haemostatic. Personally I just don't see using QuickClot on a surface bleed or even a puncture wound that doesn't sever an artery.

thisflatearth: I know where you're coming from on that. My ex-wife is an RN and bound by those same rules. A shame but it is what it is.
 
thisflatearth said:
I keep meaning to buy this for my personal pack but as a NJ EMT I am technically not able to use it on patients and even though I may save a life using it, I may also be sued if they pass, no matter if the quick clot had anything to do with it. It is one of the substances we are not cleared to use.

Kinda crappy, but the law is the law and people have been sued for less.

Will take this opportunity to get some to apply on myself.
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Does anyone actually know the legal ramifications of using this to hopefully help or save someones life who was critically injured and bleeding badly?

Common sense would say use it.... however, sadly the "law" is rarely as simple as "common sense". :(
 
Its one of those "LAW" things. We were just recently allowed to carry and administer Epi-pens. We aren't trained for quik-clot and therefore it is out of our scope as NJ EMT-B's to use.

If I wasn't an EMT and just a civilian I would be covered under the Good Samaritan laws and anything I did, even CPR I learned from a cartoon, would be "legal" as long as I was trying to render aid and not do harm.

But as a "trained" EMT I cannot go above or below my protocols otherwise I am breaking the "LAW"
 
I would figure the non-licensed person would be covered under the Good Samaritan law since rendering life saving aid is protected??? Also, QuikClot is a a known and trusted method in combat zones, SWAT situations, etc. so I figure you'd have to really piss off a jury to get convicted of using QuikClot. My point is this: I've gotten basic instruction from competent people on how to use it so I would not hesitate to use it to save a life. To hell with getting sued. That comes later. A life is more important at the moment. I know it would piss me off if someone was at the scene when a love one of mine was bleeding to death and they didn't use the QuikClot because they were afraid of being sued. To hell with being sued, I'd find ywhere you live and break your damn kneecaps for being such a pussy and letting my family die. That's a promise.
 
thisflatearth said:
Its one of those "LAW" things. We were just recently allowed to carry and administer Epi-pens. We aren't trained for quik-clot and therefore it is out of our scope as NJ EMT-B's to use.

If I wasn't an EMT and just a civilian I would be covered under the Good Samaritan laws and anything I did, even CPR I learned from a cartoon, would be "legal" as long as I was trying to render aid and not do harm.

But as a "trained" EMT I cannot go above or below my protocols otherwise I am breaking the "LAW"
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We were posting at the same time. Thanks for the clarification.
 
Ive carried a 50 gram sponge in my FAK in addition to gauzes for quite some while now. I think every outdoor person wielding an axe or knife should carry one or 2 of them. I read on other forums for people who've tried them on scalp wounds, that the 25 grams sponge is too small to be real effective.

Never tried it so i cant tell how it works, but the video on youtube where the pigs femoral artety is cut is pretty impressive.

WARNING: GRAPHIC

[youtube]Kn63UeF577Q[/youtube]
 
From wikipedia:

In order to be effective, QuikClot must be applied to the source of the bleeding, the torn blood vessel itself. This is often accessible in an open laceration, but may be deeply buried and inaccessible in the case of a puncture or gunshot wound. Also, foreign material or accumulated blood may have to be washed out to provide access to the bleeding vessel.
The majority of deaths from exsanguination (blood loss) come from internal injuries, such as the laceration or perforation of the liver, spleen, or major arteries, which can only be controlled and treated by surgical techniques, therefore QuikClot is only useful in a situation where a person has serious external injuries that cannot easily be controlled by direct pressure, elevation, or a tourniquet.

This situation is almost exclusive to tactical operations, where the provider must consider his own safety while treating his patient. Given that tactical operations are very seldom encountered by the everday provider, and that basic first aid and rapid transport is still the preferred method of treating external exsanguination, the situations where QuikClot would be the preferred choice of bleeding control are extremely limited.
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I think anybody who spends time away from immediate help could benefit from QuickClot.
 
Yeah Jeff we don't even carry it. I wasn't even aware of it till late last year as I was reading an article about an NYPD tac-medic using it on a guy who sawed his hand partially off. http://www.jems.com/article/trauma/nypd-tactical-medics-use-quikc

I would have no problem breaking it out of my first aid kit if I rolled up on a car accident in my personal vehicle and someone was loosing large volumes. I hope that the other wing nuts driving around in my state with the equipment would do the same thing me.

I have assisted and shown up by accident on several scenes of MVAs where people were bleeding, trapped, ejected and have gone straight to work after making sure some of the sheep and rubber neckers called 911 with the proper location and severity. The scariest was the male driver who had a seizure and the woman in the passenger seat couldn't get the car stopped. Almost bought it on that one. But the gloves in the center console and turn out gear in the bed and the supplies in the tool box have all been used, more so out of my town than in it.

I could preach on and on, as I sit behind my work console, dispatching police fire and ems, but we may have veered slightly off topic and I want to hear more about quik-clot. :D
 
thisflatearth said:
Yeah Jeff we don't even carry it. I wasn't even aware of it till late last year as I was reading an article about an NYPD tac-medic using it on a guy who sawed his hand partially off. http://www.jems.com/article/trauma/nypd-tactical-medics-use-quikc

I would have no problem breaking it out of my first aid kit if I rolled up on a car accident in my personal vehicle and someone was loosing large volumes. I hope that the other wing nuts driving around in my state with the equipment would do the same thing me.

I have assisted and shown up by accident on several scenes of MVAs where people were bleeding, trapped, ejected and have gone straight to work after making sure some of the sheep and rubber neckers called 911 with the proper location and severity. The scariest was the male driver who had a seizure and the woman in the passenger seat couldn't get the car stopped. Almost bought it on that one. But the gloves in the center console and turn out gear in the bed and the supplies in the tool box have all been used, more so out of my town than in it.

I could preach on and on, as I sit behind my work console, dispatching police fire and ems, but we may have veered slightly off topic and I want to hear more about quik-clot. :D
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Good stuff. Glad to know there are folks like you out there! :thumbup::thumbup:
 
I just got a few more 25 and 50s Quikclot tea bags from chinookmed. Along with $140 of other stuff. I haven't gotten any of the guaze yet, but it is on the list.

My First Aid bag is becoming more of a trama dressing kit. You can live without finger cots and some of the other crap you find in an el cheapo kit. You can't live without quick proper care to life threating wounds.
 
CLICKBANGBANG said:
You can live without finger cots and some of the other crap you find in an el cheapo kit. You can't live without quick proper care to life threating wounds.
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:thumbup::thumbup:

I call most commercial FAKs "discomfort kits" because they have stuff for small cuts and scrape, a headache, a blister and all the other stuff that limp wristed hikers would worry about.
 
R.A.T. said:
I've been harping on adding trauma elements to first aid kits for some time.
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I actually have a separate kit, with pressure dressings and hemostatics. I always have it when hunting or ATVing. I still carry the bandaids and Tylenol, and Benadryl and what-not, but I figured another small pouch with more serious dressings and stuff are worth a little extra space.

A friend of the family was shot in the face while deer hunting a couple of years ago. He survived. It was enough to remind me that sometimes terrible things happen, even if it's not your doing. I also learned not to hunt public land during firearm deer season.

SP
 
spraay said:
I also learned not to hunt public land during firearm deer season.

SP
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It doesn't matter if it's public or private. The main reason I keep a gun shot kit on me all the time is we have a shitload of IDIOT hunters in Alabama. I have very, very little respect for most of these damn rednecks that will shoot any thing that moves. We let a few people hunt our property but we know them and know they are safe hunters.
 
I've got a couple bags of the old Quikclot that heated up when used, should I replace this with the newer less heat version?
 
This is very interesting. I asked my medic buddy about quick clot a while back and he said to stay the hell away from it. But that was back when it came in just loose powder form. The reason is that it was extremely difficult to clean all of it out when you made it to the operating table. The fact that it comes in gauze form is intriguing. Thanks for sharing Jeff. A new thing for he and I to discuss and possible upgrade to the kit. How much of a foot print does two of these take up?
 
If you're worried about the heat of QuikClot, or it being difficult to wash out of wounds, take a look at Celox. It's made from chitosan, which breaks down into glucosamine in the body. It also works well in hypothermic conditions and on people taking blood thinners, and it doesn't generate heat. I have a small fak with a pack of Celox-A (which is 6g of Celox in a big syringe), a 35 g pack of loose Celox powder, a tourniquet, an Israeli bandage, and some z-packed gauze that I bring out for certain social occasions. I get mine from rescue-essentials.com.

Edit: I forget which Maxpedition pouch I use for it, but I think it's a 7x5x2 with a Blackhawk carabiner through the webbing on the back for easy on/off when I need it.
 
teacher said:
Does anyone actually know the legal ramifications of using this to hopefully help or save someones life who was critically injured and bleeding badly?

Common sense would say use it.... however, sadly the "law" is rarely as simple as "common sense". :(
Click to expand...

thisflatearth said:
Its one of those "LAW" things. We were just recently allowed to carry and administer Epi-pens. We aren't trained for quik-clot and therefore it is out of our scope as NJ EMT-B's to use.

If I wasn't an EMT and just a civilian I would be covered under the Good Samaritan laws and anything I did, even CPR I learned from a cartoon, would be "legal" as long as I was trying to render aid and not do harm.

But as a "trained" EMT I cannot go above or below my protocols otherwise I am breaking the "LAW"
Click to expand...

R.A.T. said:
I would figure the non-licensed person would be covered under the Good Samaritan law since rendering life saving aid is protected??? Also, QuikClot is a a known and trusted method in combat zones, SWAT situations, etc. so I figure you'd have to really piss off a jury to get convicted of using QuikClot. My point is this: I've gotten basic instruction from competent people on how to use it so I would not hesitate to use it to save a life. To hell with getting sued. That comes later. A life is more important at the moment. I know it would piss me off if someone was at the scene when a love one of mine was bleeding to death and they didn't use the QuikClot because they were afraid of being sued. To hell with being sued, I'd find ywhere you live and break your damn kneecaps for being such a pussy and letting my family die. That's a promise.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info guys. I totally agree! I was just wondering about the "legal" side of it. I am of the mindset also of legal be damned in a life or death situation..... or anything that resembles one. :thumbup:
 
R.A.T. said:
It doesn't matter if it's public or private. The main reason I keep a gun shot kit on me all the time is we have a shitload of IDIOT hunters in Alabama. I have very, very little respect for most of these damn rednecks that will shoot any thing that moves. We let a few people hunt our property but we know them and know they are safe hunters.
Click to expand...
I totally agree, and it is not just limited to Alabama.
However these people are not "hunters", they are outlaws & criminals and should be treated as such... heavy fines, irreversible confiscation of equipment, and jail time.
To refer to them as "hunters" does a disservice to the vast majority that do it correctly and play by the rules. :)
 
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