Ramblings by Yvsa.

Joined
May 18, 1999
Messages
15,395
One of our daughters called this morning asking if I could maybe help with a problem.
I wasn't expecting a call but had already seen the news where the potential(?) problem/trouble was reported the night before.:(
At the Tulsa City Zoo there's a couple of statues of Ganesha, the elephant God, a 10,000 pound round granite sphere floating on a thin layer of water at 9 psi with a map of the world engraved on it and the words, "The Sky is Our Father and The Earth is Our Mother."
At the wonderful Masai Exhibit there is cultural reference to the same thing, Sky is Our Father, Earth is Our Mother, sort of thing. Children and cattle are the Gods gifts to us and etc.
Nothing at all religious to it that I can see. And nothing "IN YOUR FACE" about it either, and presented as a cultural view, nothing religious or religion minded about it.
Now we have a single mean small minded Christian that wants to sue the City of Tulsa for not giving creationism an equal amount of time. He says that the City of Tulsa and the City Zoo is promoting different religions but not Christianity.:rolleyes: He will probably force the city into erecting some kind of something to promote creationism but there's a lot of other folks besides me that hope he doesn't.
I guess maybe if fair is fair we should get the Buddhists, Hindus, American ndn traditionalists, Athiests, and all the other religions and non religions together so our views of how the earth came about would also get equal time.
People like him just piss me off. Kinda remind me of Steve Largeant when I wrote him about prayer in school and would it be all right for an older ndn boy to take his sacred Pipe to school and pray with it while the Christians were saying their prayers... No answer of course.:(

I've been watching eBay, all signed up and ready to bid. I asked Nasty to bid on one for me since I am leery of PayPal and Mrs Nasty bid on the knife with my maximum bid and we got it!!!!
Since then I have made two bids on my own and lost 'em both to more experienced eBayers.
You can talk all you want about the HI Sharks but those experienced eBayers are like tuned up monster sharks with a brain and intelligence quadruple the mind of mere men!!!! :eek: :(
But I'm learning from my experiences so one of these days I'll be just as dangerous. It just dawned on me that perhaps some of the super sharks here are experinced eBayers!!!!
That would explain a few things.:rolleyes:

But on another note and a good one this time I picked this little item up from a dealer on ePrey after Howard posted that he had gotten a couple. These are "Real" Gaucho Knives!!!! :D
They are made from old carriage springs and local wood in Argentina. Mine has a beautifully wrapped handle in what appears to be a braided or woven material. Supposed to be rawhide but feels awfully waxy so I don't know, perhaops they waxed the rawhide but it feels more like the artificial sinew us ndns use for so many crafts.;)
Like the khukuri you have to be careful when drawing one, after you sharpen it that is.
Mine came with about a 1/32" flat on it much like the old trade knives traded to the old mountain men and ndns.
They prefered to put their own personal edges on them.
Also the knives are soft enough that you can use a file on them to sharpen them. I imagine the gauchos use a local rock to sharpen theirs with. Remember on the Pampas there isn't a lot of technology.
 
Yvsa, as a Christian I, too, find it sad and irritating that there are people like the guy suing the city of Tulsa over this. There is room for all. Though we were founded by Christians, we were also founded to be a haven of religious freedom for ALL people.

We have an interesting site in Georgia.

http://www.thegeorgiaguidestones.com/stones.htm

I have visited it and while I don't really understand it all, I like the sentiments. The peculiar thing is that in the 25 years or so it has been there, no-one has ever complained or vandalized it.

"eBay sharks." Yeah, well, you have a point here also. I remember my first eBay experience --- a beautiful Chinese bed. For a week I watched it, bid incrementally everytime someone else bid. Thought for sure I had it and in the last four seconds someone bid a few dollars more than me and won it.

I was furious! I learned about sniper bidding. But I did not use that technology.

Then came the "Shadow." This allows people to easily see what almost anyone is bidding on and track them. I began to notice that the same people were watching what I was bidding on and then bidding on the same items, MY items! Items that I had spent a lot of time researching.

Then there are the crazy 'testosterone bidding wars' where an item goes for beyond its real value. Good for the sellers, bad for the buyers.

So I got the sniper software. I use it, and yeah I have had some flack from poeple who say, "Naga-Basuki beat me with a stick in the last four seconds." Sometimes I have bid a few dollars more than a friend. I usually email them and offer them the piece for my bid.

There is a hell of a lot more "stuff" out there than friends. I KNOW that you can not take the stuff with you when you pass on, but I do believe that you and your friends will someday be together again.

Nice Gaucho knives! Glad for you that you won them!
 
Yvsa:

Don't get me started on school prayer . . .

I'm a proponent of "pray in your own way," and always have been. IMO, the prayers all go to the same place anyway. As humans from countless different cultures we just define the "Great Spirit" in each of our cultural contexts. JMO, and it's an oversimplification about which I could very well be wrong. One aspect of eventually passing on is that I'll find out for certain. But I digress.

A HUGE pet peeve of mine is the campaign to totally eradicate traces of "religion" from public structures and places. IMO, it is a hypocrasy of the major kind to ban prayer in school, but each house of Congress has it's own chaplain and begins each legislative day with a prayer.

Course, they need it, dont' they?

Don't get me started . . .

Noah
 
That's a real shame, Yvsa:( I haven't quite figured out religion yet. I've been trying, but i can't quite "get" what it is really for. I know why we have it, but what is it's true purpose. Many people say that you should follow a certain religion so that you can get into heaven. That's a good reason, but i'm not so sure that God wants us to do nothing with the time given besides try to earn a pass into a better hear after. That sounds a bit empty to me. Wouldn't He rather I spend my time on the earth showing compassion and grace to those that do not agree with my views but are made in His image? I almost wonder if there is a different little slice of heaven for everyone. Maybe the finger pointers will have a very strict after life as that is what they wanted and were expecting. Why disappoint, ya know? Maybe those that know they do evil and expect to find hell simply do. Maybe those that are open minded find themselves walking through a saloon style door into a large room with a crackling fire surrounded by friends that raise a glass with a smile. Uncle Bill slides them a mug down the bar, while Rusty sits at a beautifully carved piano specially suited to his 5'4" frame. Maybe. Who knows. I sure don't. All I can say that i HOPE to do a lot more listening, helping, and general goodwill than finger pointing, scripture spouting, and beating on my bible. "God is good". People should think about that from time to time before they start speaking on His behalf.

Sorry for the OT rant, but I just don't know why people have to make everything "fair". Some of the greatest truths and mysteries in life are going to happen when you aren't expecting them and trip right over them in the dirt path.

Jake
 
I've resisted, but...


I think it would so cool if god was really an elephant. I'd love to be there when the law-suit bringer came up to the pearly...er...pasture.

"WHO ARE YOU?"

"I'm the one with the lawsuit. Who are you?"

"HEE, HEE, HEE,....see that shovel? You got a job for eternity."
 
______________________________________________
Religion is between the Individual and the Infinite.
______________________________________________


Ad Astra
 
As a Taoist I find it hard to take seriously any religion based on definitions and specifics. It contradicts the total connection of spirituality because to define something separates it from everything else.
I also feel that religion is counter to freedom, though freedom supports religions. Most things I hear people say from their religion is about the rules, typically it’s about what you can’t do.
To me there is freedom of choice and the mutual benefit of tolerance to others freedom of choice can eliminate harm. I am leery of anything that restricts and being told what you can’t do certainly is restriction.

But these things turn into debates that tend to take people further apart than bringing them together. There is more than enough equal time for all beliefs but it should be governed by the choice of someone to give up their time in order to listen.

Ebay... I find that I have a price I am willing to pay I put that in if someone goes higher well I was not and thats the way it goes. Often after something goes by that I missed something else comes up that I like...and since I don't need any of these to live I consider that in the fine print of life they are all just feel good toys.
 
Couple of years ago, a columinst for the Cleveland Plain Dealer (supposedly an educated person) denounced having the Ten Commandments appear in any public place. Why? She said it would offend Muslims, Jews, and Buddhists. Such ignorance is astounding. She is now the PD's "International Affairs" columinst.

Howard, as for snipping software, what happens if two bidders are using the same software?
 
The situation sounds like the 'christian' was trying to use the same logic that had banned 'christian' displays from public places in the past.

Most of my own problems I created. I think human-kind does that- as if hunger, pollution, terrorism were not enough.


munk
 
I could never understand the bitter core of venom and hatred felt towards Christians by certain Indians,Athetists,Agnostics,Secular Jews,Muslims,etc.

What is it about the 10 commandants that turns certain people into rabid animals?

What is it about the teachings of Jesus that reduces certain people to
murderous rages?

What is it about a Cresh,the Christmas Holidays,Easter,the Pledge of Allegiance,and the word -God-,that sends certain people into rants and rages that have to be seen to be believed?

Why is it that when a Christian responds to abuse,intimidation, and hatred by a Non-Christian by establishing boundaries-- that the Christian is ridiculed and derided as being intolerant and small-minded?

I personally don't join in on this hateful game of "lets jump and dump on the Christians" in order to see how much battering they will take and then when the Christians respond by establishing limits the abusers can start their usual
childlike temper tantrums of "See,See, See how awful the Christians are?Those dastardly Christians are interfering with my freedom of speech by proposing that I can't curse and profane all that they hold sacred.

Oh well---I guess some people are so bored,angry,and bitter with the hand that life has dealt them that bashing Christians is one of the few remaining sports left and there are always plenty of consensus opinions eager to join in and cheer their anti-Christian bigotry. ;)
 
Thomas Linton said:
Howard, as for snipping software, what happens if two bidders are using the same software?
All the sniping software does is waits and puts in your bid during the last few sections of an auction. If more than one person is using the same software it doesn't matter. It just puts in both your bids.

The advantages of sniping are:

1 - you can change your mind anytime before the bid is placed and cancel the snipe. You don't make a binding bid till the last seconds of the auction.

2 - Others can't see in advance what items you are interested in, as they can if you put in a bid. If you are a collector with good e-bay reasearch skills you may have numerous people watching the items you bid on.

3 - Your bid does not inspire others to bid higher. Often someone will get outbid and then decide "well, I'll go higher. I really want this item." With sniping that doesn't happen, because no one has time to see your bid. If you want to get an idea of how frequent this is look at some closed auctions and note how many people bid more than once.

Of course, if anyone bids more than you're willing to pay they will get the item.
 
I usually prefer to do my own sniping. I decide in advance *exactly* how much a thing is worth to me, then sit at the keyboard with multiple windows open, ready to pounce like a trapdoor spider. I count down the seconds, getting the timing exactly perfect so that I may, at the very last second possible, hit the button to commit the bid with the slimmest of margins so that even a computer won't be able to react in time to bump past me.

Of course, sometimes I just place a bid and walk away, only to be surprised days later that I won some bid on something that I have completely forgotten about. Usually the best stuff comes this way.

:)

.
 
clearblue said:
What is it about the 10 commandants that turns certain people into rabid animals?
. . .
Oh well---I guess some people are so bored,angry,and bitter with the hand that life has dealt them that bashing Christians is one of the few remaining sports left and there are always plenty of consensus opinions eager to join in and cheer their anti-Christian bigotry. ;)

Well, CB, it won't be pious Jews, Muslims, or Buddhists getting rabid about the Ten Commandments. For the first two groups, the Ten Commandments of course come from their holy book (Remember the bumper sticker: "Moses Says Take Ten"?), and the last group pratices a level of toleration that borders on the supernatural.

Maybe the World should listen to my Grandma Lyman's "Two Commandments." When the grandkids set to wrangling, she would appear and pronounce: "No hitting; be nice!"
 
'you must spread some rep around before giving it to Thomas..." yaddy yada yadda.



munk
 
Bill Marsh said:
Yvsa, as a Christian I, too, find it sad and irritating that there are people like the guy suing the city of Tulsa over this. There is room for all. Though we were founded by Christians, we were also founded to be a haven of religious freedom for ALL people.
Yup.:D

Noah Zark said:
I'm a proponent of "pray in your own way," and always have been. IMO, the prayers all go to the same place anyway. As humans from countless different cultures we just define the "Great Spirit" in each of our cultural contexts.

A HUGE pet peeve of mine is the campaign to totally eradicate traces of "religion" from public structures and places. IMO, it is a hypocrasy of the major kind to ban prayer in school, but each house of Congress has it's own chaplain and begins each legislative day with a prayer.

Course, they need it, dont' they?

Noah
Yup.:D

cliff355 said:
Pretty dumb thing to get wound up over IMHO. Years ago a Buddhist Priest from Japan counseled me on such matters, specifically the theories of reincarnation. According to him, they have that theory pretty much because everyone demands some theory or other and that is the one they settled on. He said the Buddhists could be completely wrong about it, but if they are their theory isn't any more ridiculous than anyone else's theory.
Yup.:D


clearblue said:
I could never understand the bitter core of venom and hatred felt towards Christians by certain Indians,Athetists,Agnostics,Secular Jews,Muslims,etc.

What is it about the 10 commandants that turns certain people into rabid animals?

What is it about the teachings of Jesus that reduces certain people to
murderous rages?

What is it about a Cresh,the Christmas Holidays,Easter,the Pledge of Allegiance,and the word -God-,that sends certain people into rants and rages that have to be seen to be believed?

Why is it that when a Christian responds to abuse,intimidation, and hatred by a Non-Christian by establishing boundaries-- that the Christian is ridiculed and derided as being intolerant and small-minded?

I personally don't join in on this hateful game of "lets jump and dump on the Christians" in order to see how much battering they will take and then when the Christians respond by establishing limits the abusers can start their usual
childlike temper tantrums of "See,See, See how awful the Christians are?Those dastardly Christians are interfering with my freedom of speech by proposing that I can't curse and profane all that they hold sacred.

Oh well---I guess some people are so bored,angry,and bitter with the hand that life has dealt them that bashing Christians is one of the few remaining sports left and there are always plenty of consensus opinions eager to join in and cheer their anti-Christian bigotry. ;)
Clearblue if you're implying that I am
Clearblue said:
"so bored, angry bored,angry,and bitter with the hand that life has dealt them that bashing Christians is one of the few remaining sports left and there are always plenty of consensus opinions eager to join in and cheer their anti-Christian bigotry."
then you are all wrong and mis-read my post.
I was not bashing Christians. Only one Christian.
A, single, mean, small minded, Christian, at that.:grumpy:
These exhibits have been at the Tulsa City Zoo for many, many years and do not promote religion, only culture.
I would estimate that 99.99% of the people that go to and support our zoo are Christians.
Out of so many for so long only one, mean small minded Christian, has brought this matter up and that includes all the Christian Ministers, Preachers, and other assorted Christian people with some degree of office in a Christian Church that has enjoyed our zoo and all it has to offer for all these years, let alone all the Christian people themselves.
I personally have no problems with Christians nor do I go around bashing them.
If I did I would have been ran out of this forum many, many long years ago, actually I wouldn't have been welcomed to stay and that's as it should be. :-p

I was granted the right many, many years ago to build, maintain, and run a Sweatlodge for my family and friends (as well as other rights too numerous too mention.) That includes my Christian Friends. My Christian Friends like Bill Marsh, Munk, and several others here. They all know what I am saying and know that I am not bashing all Christians.
If it were possible for me to hold a Sweatlodge Ceremony on Friday nights instead of Saturday we would still be holding a monthly Sweatlodge Ceremony for the St Aidans Christian Episcopal Church here once a month like we did for several years.
I had to enlarge the size of my Lodge from a nine foot diameter to a twelve foot diameter in order to be able to accomodate all the good Christians from St Aidans Epicopal Church that came here to sweat with us because of the good that came out of this Lodge and was very proud to be able to do so.:D
When we had the smaller Lodge there were a few times I ran a back to back Sweat in order to accomdate those who wanted to Sweat and were willing to stay late to do so. St Aidans recognized the ndn beliefs and even had an ndn altar set up inside the church. Great People they are and a mixed ethnicity church too, all are welcome there. Even a, single, mean, small, minded, Christian as he could even maybe change his mind at some point.
However he wouldn't be allowed to spew "His" brand of venom there. :-)

I have no problem with the Ten Commandments for Christians and I personally believe in many of them myself.
I think the teachings of Jesus are absolutely marvelous and wish that everyone in the world would follow them.
Please note that I said, "The teachings of Jesus" and not the Holy Bible, Jesus indeed was a great and wonderful teacher!!!!
IMO the apostles took the religion of Jesus and made it into a religion about Jesus. :-(
In some of the Old Ones thought's it is believed that the Pale One who came to us long, long, ago was Jesus himself, I don't disagree with that, just don't know, but indeed it could've been. :-)
If indeed it was Jesus we most certainly got a different message than the other part of the world.:D
It is in our belief that we should not press our beliefs on anyone.
If only the Christians were so inclined. And Especially the, single, mean, small minded, one that wants to sue the City of Tulsa over nothing. :( :rolleyes: :p
 
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