Ramblings by Yvsa.

Yvsa said:
At the Tulsa City Zoo there's a couple of statues of Ganesha, the elephant God, ...
......, "The Sky is Our Father and The Earth is Our Mother."
At the wonderful Masai Exhibit there is cultural reference to the same thing, Sky is Our Father, Earth is Our Mother, sort of thing. Children and cattle are the Gods gifts to us and etc.
Nothing at all religious to it that I can see. And nothing "IN YOUR FACE" about it either, and presented as a cultural view, nothing religious or religion minded about it.
Now we have a single mean small minded Christian that wants to sue the City of Tulsa for not giving creationism an equal amount of time. He says that the City of Tulsa and the City Zoo is promoting different religions but not Christianity.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Wait til he sees the
City of Tulsa, Hunter Park Labyrinth
recently installed with a rock table
{what some will no doubt see as a 'sacrifice table' :rolleyes:
in the center.

[no doubt for use with boomerrange kukrees with their
little tertur 'nives]

& the signs at the labyrinth welcome kids & others to
walk the path for a spiritual experience.

I can't hardly wait to see if it gets painted over :rolleyes:

http://www.livejournal.com/community/tulsatime/249999.html
http://www.cityoftulsa.org/text+only/press+releases/pk050505.htm
"Release #: PK050505
Release Date: May 5, 2005

Contact: Bob Hendrick
Contact E-Mail: BobHendrick@cityoftulsa.org
Contact Phone: 596-2488

Tulsa Parks announced today that they would be installing a labyrinth at Hunter Park, 5804 E. 91st Street, during the week of May 23rd.


Dating back to the early 1600's, labyrinths are rich with history and have been discovered throughout the world. They have been described as 'healing, meditative, cleansing and spiritual."

"A labyrinth is different from a maze. There is only one path, and while it does make twists and turns, you can't get lost," describes Bob Hendrick, Special Events Coordinator for Tulsa Parks. "Believed to have originated in Europe, you can now find labyrinths in cathedrals, hospitals, university campuses, etc., throughout the world. People who walk labyrinths describe a feeling of peace and serenity, stress release, healing, or any combination thereof."

Consisting of a walking path, labyrinths can be as intricate as inlaid mosaic tile inset on a marble floor, or a grass path cut into a lawn. The patterns of labyrinths vary. The Hunter Park Labyrinth will be a classical 11-circuit Chartres pattern, painted on a concrete slab once used as a basketball court. It will span 60' across when finished with a walking path of approximately ½ mile.

"Months ago, I saw this deserted basketball court and I was trying to come up with something to do with it that would be little to no cost and still add to the park and the Park Department," Hendrick continues. "I 've walked a labyrinth before (skeptically) and was really amazed at the feelings that came over me. I think once people walk a labyrinth they'll be sold on the idea."

Hendrick himself will be painting the Hunter Park labyrinth the week of May 23rd, depending on the weather. Open to the public, the labyrinth will be free of charge and available after Memorial Day.

###

DirectLink:
Posted: 5/6/2005 2:44:15 PM
Posted By: Kim Meloy
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Here's my two cents on this subject....it is all well and good when the aclu or some other equally worthless organization denies the Ten Commandments (the basis of modern law)being allowed in a courtroom or the nativity scene(a Christmas Tradition) being displayed or Christmas trees have to be called holiday trees or Christmas cards referred to as holiday cards....but when someone decides what is good for the goose is good for the gander, well all the little god hating lefties get all in a dither.....yeah, I said it...I cannot imagine why someone affiliated with a party that condones such outright ridiculousness based on the unfounded myth of seperation of church and state(nowhere to be found in the constitution) would be offended by this action....oh, yeah I can...it isn't directed at Christianity, that's why. Turn about is fair play and in an effort to unmask this anti-christian bias for the sham it is, I praise the bringer of this action as it helps the rest of the country see what Christians have been dealing with for years.
 
I think Yvsa's point was the display hurt no one. Though Christians have complained about being curtailed for years, it is ironic that a Christian brought action. No one gets anything?

We do this to ourselves, you know; make life real hard.


munk
 
Actually, the basis for modern law predates Christianity by quite a while...

Code of Hammurabi
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

The Code of Hammurabi, created ca. 1700 BC (short chronology), also known as the Codex Hammurabi, is one of the earliest sets of laws found, and one of the best preserved examples of this type of document from ancient Mesopotamia. Other collections of laws include the codex of Ur-Nammu, king of Ur (ca. 2050 BC), the Codex of Eshnunna (ca. 1930 BC) and the codex of Lipit-Ishtar of Isin (ca. 1870 BC).

It shows rules and punishments if those rules are broken. It focuses on theft, farming (or shepherding), property damage, women's rights, marriage rights, children's rights, slave rights, murder, death, and injury. The punishment is different for different classes of offenders and victims. The laws do not accept excuses or explanations for mistakes or fault: the Code was openly displayed for all to see, so no man could plead ignorance of the law as an excuse. Few people, however, could read in that era (literacy mainly being the domain of scribes).
Click to expand...
 
Ok, nasty you are quite right about hammurabi's code but the Ten Commandments are also an historic basis for modern law, that being said, my point is really that I AM bitter :mad: about all the curtailments on these things that I grew up having as part of my life and cannot imagine why a nativity display in public would offend a non-christian. The fact that here in Tennessee last CHRISTmas....that's the name of the holiday people, there was a christmas tree vendor in Franklin, a suburb of Nashville, forced to take his sign down and replace it with one that said holiday trees.....WTF????? :confused: If this is ok and if this is acceptable then I honestly think it becomes an all or nothing deal. Either everybody grows up and gets over themselves or nobody can have anything as the previous poster stated. Why do the majority need to be led around by a very minute minority??? What a pile, I, for one, am sick and tired of it :grumpy: . I am not a churchgoing person, but have a Christian upbringing and honestly could care less about the display in the zoo, but if this is what it takes for non-christians or more appropriately, vehemently anti-christians to get how ridiculous they are, then three cheers, I say.
 
ANGRYMOB-

Thanks for telling us what was going on. I understand bitterness.



munk
 
Well the fact of the matter is that the Tulsa Daily World has been flooded lately with letters by Christians saying that the whole thing was ridiculous and should have been left as it was.

The little mean small-minded Christian on the other hand is trying to back out of the whole deal now that he has had a couple of crank calls at 2:00 in the morning as well as some other troubles standing up for what you believe in can bring.:rolleyes: Looks like he had the guts to start it but not finish it as he's saying now, "that it's time for others to take it over and finish it.":rolleyes: :grumpy:
 
Yvsa, I don't know anything about you, so I won't assume anything, but I wonder, in your opinion are the people who complained about the sign that said Christmas trees little, mean, and small minded??
 
I'm a Christian, and Yvsa hasn't called me mean, small minded, or petty. At least, not for that!

>>>>>>

Not everyone believes as I do- but I'd like to see people openly celebrating their faith. I'd like to see non denominational 'Christian' observances in public and in some community events. Unlike many Christians, I would also like to see other faiths represented. I do not believe this Country was founded NEVER to mention God, only not to coerce others to a majority belief.

However, it is not only part of a growing legal history, but a popular idea- this 'seperation of church and state', and there is very little we can do about it. They will have their secularism.

God help us when we remove God from our public lives and in place put....The Federal Government? The emancipated individual? PETA?

We're screwed. A society that can't worship and or observe faith is going down.

Any anthropologist/sociologist oughta be able to agree no civilization has survived without faith. (Of course, they all 'fell' with faith too!)

I try not to get angry about it- because it'll just make me 'bitter'.
What is going to happen is coming and there's not a darn thing I can do about it.

munk
 
Munk, I think a couple of "I's" becomes a "we," and a "we" can do a great deal. Ask the UK what became of their empire. Ask CBS, ABS, NBS, CNNBS, and MSNBS what became of their "monopoly" on opinion-formation.
 
Yvsa and Nasty.Two nice knives.Don't have one yet,but would be pleased having either.Congrats,Leatherbird.
 
Leatherbird - LOL...thanks! I had to go back to see which ones you were talking about...I am spoiled with Yangdu's shipping...anxious for it to arrive.

munk - It always scares me when I agree too much with you ;) but I *do* agree that the country was supposed to not endorse a religion, but rather to ensure freedom to worship in any way, or not at all.

Mob - I think any lack of respect or tolerance would earn the description "little, mean, and small minded"

My own $.02 - Faith is a wonderous thing...no matter what it is that you have faith *in*...a particular religion, science, or just the wonder of everything.

.
 
I get a little miffed about the removal of Christ from Christmas. No so much because it hurts me in anyway. It just makes me mad that no one can leave traditon alone. Why do we need a "Holiday Parade"? What's wrong with a Christmas Parade? Why is being an openly gushy Christian around Christmas so bad for society? Even Christians on the fence are holly jolly and full of goodwill around that time of the year. Why can't Christmas be a partiotic holiday? A time to say, "Hey, look. I'm a red-blooded passionate American and this is how MY family has always done things from the day after we stuff ourselves with turkey bird to the day where we fight the mob to take back all the crap we got and don't want back to the stores. Somewhere in there...way deep down, beyond the commercials for the must have toys, the force-handed cards we must write, the bitter awkwardness of family gatherings, and the greedy lust of getting what we want or pouting about it there is a meaning to all of this. This is the time of year where I celebrate my faith, in my own way, the way my constitution says I can. Whether I go to church every single day, or i simply pillage the advent calander of it's choclates 3 weeks in advance, or believe that the 3 wise men were named Larry, Curley, and Moe...this is my time to celebrate and there's not a damn thing anyone can do to change that."
I get so upset that people like to be upset. that's what it is. Calling a tree a Christmas tree doesn't hurt ANYONE...furthermore, a beautiful statue that honors the very old and beautiful religion of America's real native peoples hurts no one either. In the end, it's really not important. A tree is just a tree. An idiot is just an idiot.

Is Jesus your Lord? Is your life governed by the cold facts of science? Is a Mr. Potato Head your spirtial advisor? Who cares? Just love yourself, love your neighbor, and be cool to one another.

Jake
 
munk said:
. . .Unlike many Christians, I would also like to see other faiths represented. I do not believe this Country was founded NEVER to mention God, only not to coerce others to a majority belief.
. . .

munk
Click to expand...

Yup. That's why its called the "establishment clause." The Church of England was the official church in the colonies, and the Founders wanted no established church. That got us to "no government support of a religion," then "no government support of religion," and finally to our present pass.

A fine example of law made by unelected/unaccountable officials -- judges.
 
ANGRYMOB said:
Yvsa, I don't know anything about you, so I won't assume anything, but I wonder, in your opinion are the people who complained about the sign that said Christmas trees little, mean, and small minded??
Click to expand...
Yup!!!! I do think the people that complained about the Christmas trees are little, mean spirited, and small minded people. Like the man that has caused the City of Tulsa and the Tulsa City Zoo so much trouble they should be tarred and feathered and ran out of town on a rail!!!!! :mad:
People just ought to mind their own damned business and not interefere.:rolleyes:

The thing is is that the zoo is a zoo and about animals and cultures. Religion hasn't entered into it nor should religion enter into it.:rolleyes:
Just because there's a statue of Ganesha, the elephant god of the Hindus and talk of the Hindu Culture, an exhibit actually a small village representative of the Masai Culture and a comparrison to the ndn culture, along with a 10,000 pound granite ball that's inscribed with the map of our world and the words, "The sky is our father" and "The earth is our mother." this guy is saying that religion is being taught at the zoo.:rolleyes: :grumpy:
This is the same guy who come to find out five years ago made the zoo, again under threat of a lawsuit, put a disclaimer on the biological, and other scientific displays explaining how the majority of the world views of how they came about.

I guess what bugs me most about this kind of bullsh*t is that if the Christians can't force something down your throat they see fit to shove it up another part of your anatomy.
Rusty, our little Brother, a damned fine Christian, and the only moderator of this fine group at the time who recently walked West agreed with all of us who felt this was true
Fortunately it is only a small amount of Christians that do this in most places. Trouble is they are so damned vocal that they make it seem like all of the Christians are the same way.:grumpy:

Read on back in the thread and you'll see I don't have anything against most Christians.
Actually there are still quite a few that show up at our Sweatlodge from time to time. We get along just fine and they have little or no problems with what is taught here, even agreeing with me about the Christians who would shove Christianity up the other part of your anatomy. Jesus even told the disciples to spread the word and if it wasn't taken to heart to dust off their shoes as they left the city and leave those people to their own devices, not shove the word up their collective asses.:cool: :D

I really do love what Jesus taught, like I've said before, "The apostles took the Religion OF Jesus and made it INTO a Religion ABOUT Jesus.":rolleyes:
When you scrape off the beads and feathers of the ndns and the long robes and mysticism of the ancient Europeans you get real close, if not right next too, to what Jesus taught.
Me Likey.:D
 
Yvsa said:
Yup!!!! I do think the people that complained about the Christmas trees are little, mean spirited, and small minded people. Like the man that has caused the City of Tulsa and the Tulsa City Zoo so much trouble they should be tarred and feathered and ran out of town on a rail!!!!! :mad:
People just ought to mind their own damned business and not interefere.:rolleyes:

The thing is is that the zoo is a zoo and about animals and cultures. Religion hasn't entered into it nor should religion enter into it.:rolleyes:
Just because there's a statue of Ganesha, the elephant god of the Hindus and talk of the Hindu Culture, an exhibit actually a small village representative of the Masai Culture and a comparrison to the ndn culture, along with a 10,000 pound granite ball that's inscribed with the map of our world and the words, "The sky is our father" and "The earth is our mother." this guy is saying that religion is being taught at the zoo.:rolleyes: :grumpy:
This is the same guy who come to find out five years ago made the zoo, again under threat of a lawsuit, put a disclaimer on the biological, and other scientific displays explaining how the majority of the world views of how they came about.

I guess what bugs me most about this kind of bullsh*t is that if the Christians can't force something down your throat they see fit to shove it up another part of your anatomy.
Rusty, our little Brother, a damned fine Christian, and the only moderator of this fine group at the time who recently walked West agreed with all of us who felt this was true
Fortunately it is only a small amount of Christians that do this in most places. Trouble is they are so damned vocal that they make it seem like all of the Christians are the same way.:grumpy:

Read on back in the thread and you'll see I don't have anything against most Christians.
Actually there are still quite a few that show up at our Sweatlodge from time to time. We get along just fine and they have little or no problems with what is taught here, even agreeing with me about the Christians who would shove Christianity up the other part of your anatomy. Jesus even told the disciples to spread the word and if it wasn't taken to heart to dust off their shoes as they left the city and leave those people to their own devices, not shove the word up their collective asses.:cool: :D

I really do love what Jesus taught, like I've said before, "The apostles took the Religion OF Jesus and made it INTO a Religion ABOUT Jesus.":rolleyes:
When you scrape off the beads and feathers of the ndns and the long robes and mysticism of the ancient Europeans you get real close, if not right next too, to what Jesus taught.
Me Likey.:D
Click to expand...
Ironically, these are many of the exact opinions I hold to a more or less degree about the rabidly anti-christian lobby in this country that if they cannot force their extreme minority views on the majority, they will happily shove them up our u know whats as well. I stated earlier I have no problem with the exhibit and find that this situation is pretty funny considering that it is one in a hundred where a christian(extremist though he may be) tried to prevent a religious display from being ,well, displayed for every 99 over the top secularists complaint about Christmas or a freakin' cross being worn by a teacher or as a case in Canada which deems the bible to be hate speech to on and on and on. I just wish that people would live their lives and let others do likewise. What riles me up is the lack of outrage toward the anti christian lobby because if you really want to know, I could care less as long as evryone gets equal time but get to feeling really screwed when it seems to me that anything BUT christianity is ok. I am just a traditionalist and would like to see the traditions I grew up with continue. I mean what the hell is wrong with calling Christmas Christmas, Hannukah Hannukah and so on?
 
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