Random Thought Thread

Nathan the Machinist said:
The problem with pre-order is, once I have your money you are reasonably entitled to schedules and updates. I don't want to be in that position anymore. It's not fair to you guys and it's not how I want to operate. I think it's time to change our model and do things like the SDFK where we simply make product and sell it on Fridays. Easy peasy.
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I guess I better block off a reoccurring Friday meeting from 3:00-3:01 in my work calendar.
 
Greatest moment at work....

So we attached pvc pipe to an air blow gun to shoot things out of...

I found out that a trim panel plastic clip gently pushed into the pvc pipe made the ultimate projectile.....

So one day as a manager I didn't like walked out barking ....the ADD in me took over and I thought loading this plastic clip and projecting it towards the managers genitals was a good idea....

I did........ and laid him to the ground....... it was glorious as he screamed "what the f##k is wrong with you"......

He's gone and I'm still at the shop hahaha
 
yoko said:
Greatest moment at work....

So we attached pvc pipe to an air blow gun to shoot things out of...

I found out that a trim panel plastic clip gently pushed into the pvc pipe made the ultimate projectile.....

So one day as a manager I didn't like walked out barking ....the ADD in me took over and I thought loading this plastic clip and projecting it towards the managers genitals was a good idea....

I did........ and laid him to the ground....... it was glorious as he screamed "what the f##k is wrong with you"......

He's gone and I'm still at the shop hahaha
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it's good to be productive.
 
I don't think it's a bad idea, Nathan. A lot of it because, despite my great respect and fondness for both you and Jo, I truly dislike the "pay up front" method of running a knife business, custom or production. I have seen the ugly side of it too often. Even you have addressed this in your posts wherein you state that you think it's a bad policy in general, but still do so. (And I can definitely understand the "why" of it.)

There are definitely pros and cons in my view...for you as well as your customers, but I think it's a better policy. Perhaps there are ways to still make it work. (I know, I can hold all the money in escrow. :cool: )
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
I've been thinking about getting away from the pre-order system.



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It would be simpler to make what I want, when I want and sell what I want on whatever schedule works best for us. There really is no good business reason to do pre-orders and they make our business less adaptable due to the scheduling obligations that are necessary. It made a lot of sense when we were smaller and we had all these restrictions in our manufacturing process where our inventory was limited, sales were very brisk and there was advantages for everybody to take orders and scale things up.

The problem with pre-order is, once I have your money you are reasonably entitled to schedules and updates. I don't want to be in that position anymore. It's not fair to you guys and it's not how I want to operate. I think it's time to change our model and do things like the SDFK where we simply make product and sell it on Fridays. Easy peasy.
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I think if you put a GoPro on Mark or Sadie (whichever would be easier to train to upload video to YouTube) then you could tell those asking for progress reports to “check the tape”.
 
You gotta do what works best for your business and you and the crew. My only thought would be hopefully you would consider selling larger groups of knives in the Friday sales. Out in the boonies my connection is suspect at best and without pre-orders anything less than 30 or 40 is pure luck if I stumble in.

I'll support your product whatever way you go.

Edit: To add ... you are open and upfront about expectations and time frames. And you update with any delays as well or better than anyone in the business. And I'm sure it's frustrating to have to try to reply to the inquries you must get about "how long". I just wanted to say thank you for being such a straight shooter with all of it.

You can always put Sadie in charge of responding to the inquiries.
 
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Nathan the Machinist said:
I've been thinking about getting away from the pre-order system.



View attachment 1963135





It would be simpler to make what I want, when I want and sell what I want on whatever schedule works best for us. There really is no good business reason to do pre-orders and they make our business less adaptable due to the scheduling obligations that are necessary. It made a lot of sense when we were smaller and we had all these restrictions in our manufacturing process where our inventory was limited, sales were very brisk and there was advantages for everybody to take orders and scale things up.

The problem with pre-order is, once I have your money you are reasonably entitled to schedules and updates. I don't want to be in that position anymore. It's not fair to you guys and it's not how I want to operate. I think it's time to change our model and do things like the SDFK where we simply make product and sell it on Fridays. Easy peasy.
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For someone living in australia, friday sales are difficult. It sometimes means getting up at 5am after coming home late the night before, (I work late Friday night aka your Thursday) only to miss out. It is much less fun and motivating for me personally. Sometimes I will participate if I randomly wake up in the middle of the night not long before it goes live. But the chances of landing something are so small that it isnt worth getting up at that time only to have a Saturday ruined by tiredness.

That's not your fault.
That's not your problem.

But also, I just dont like having to compete. I like the idea of putting down my name and not worrying about "if" I will get one.

I'll take the guarantee of pre-order over the speed of Friday sales, anyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

But your business and your call! I love your knives, but having no pre-order almost counts me out or at least, puts up some barriers that make it rather complicated. And I am only one smuck in Australia compared to your large US base customers. But thought i'd give my 2 cents anyway.
 
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i like preorders. It lets me get something in a relatively stress free way and do some customization that wouldn’t be possible otherwise.

I can certainly understand a desire to simplify production and not feel beholden to customers for updates.

I hope you can figure out a middle path that preserves the positives around preorders and also reduces your stress (smaller preorders? Doing them further along in the production process? A more automated order management system?).
 
Nathan the Machinist Nathan the Machinist - I absolutely understand your mindset. Once you’re committed (taking a deposit or payment), you are to a certain degree beholden to those that have given you money. Once you’re committed, it is no longer a labor of love, it is an obligation. I think most of your customers are flexible, tolerant, and understanding related to the timing of the delivery of the product they ordered. After all, I doubt if anyone is depending on the delivery of the K20 to defend their life, liberty, or freedom. If they are, their government has probably prohibited the ownership.

Most of what you offer is a luxury item, and many of your customers have substitute products (most often made by you) that will tide them over until delivery. Granted, there is a certain anxiousness in waiting for something one has paid for that exceeds anticipation for something that may be released in the future. Your track record is exemplary; fulfillment probably isn’t a concern for most, though some may start to sweat whether you will deliver.

Looking at the upside for you, as a seller and knife maker, at a minimum pre-sales allow you to judge interest, and if working capital is limited, acquire raw materials to proceed. While I don’t know what your capital situation is (especially in light of your recent statement that a small steel order was around $50K), the other issue has seemingly become moot. You could probably offer sharpened rebar and it would sell out. That actually seems to be an enviable position in which to be.

Looking at the upside for buyers, initially the presales apparently occurred at a more leisurely pace, allowing those that couldn’t participate or succeed in the weekly sales to acquire your product. This seems to have become a thing of the past; recent presales have been as frenetic as the Friday sales. The other upside to consumers is the ability to customize their purchase as they desire, within the confines of what you offer or what they can badger you into offering.

The bottom line of the preceding verbosity: there seems to be waning upside to you to continue presales. As for the consumer, there is still a feeding frenzy, whether offered by presale or direct sale of completed product. This suggests that the supply – demand curves are misaligned, which would be the economists’ way of saying the price point is suspect. I’ll no doubt get flamed for that. Perhaps if you abandon the presale model, you can substitute an alternative method to minimize the other loss to the consumer - the ability to customize your product. Possibly, with your wisdom and input from the community, you can even develop a sales model that addresses the concern of selling out in seconds!

I’m fairly certain that none of your customer base wants to see you get burned out on making or selling knives, or get bitter about the demands placed on you by virtue of having presales. I fully support whatever path you follow to prevent this from occurring.
 
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I kind of figured that the comfortable days of the CPK pre-order were numbered. All good things come to an end as it’s said. Pre-orders work for me, Friday sales rarely do.

However, I’d rather the CPK crew be healthy and happy, doing what they love in a way that makes sense to them. I have a modest assortment of CPKs and they are my pride and joy. Though I may not have the luxury of adding to said pile in the future, I’m pretty content with the ones I do have - I have full confidence that they will take me through all sorts of apocalypses (zombie, nuclear, hipster, aliens, etc.)

Do what makes sense to you guys, I’ll still be a fan and will continue to support - even if it’s just cheering from the sidelines.
 
You seem to *vastly* underestimate the demand for expensive/specialty projects like the K20 and Shiv 2.0. The pre-order systems allows you to get a better grasp on the actual demand from people who will pay.

I'd be afraid that without the pre-order, you'd make smaller quantities of the specialty items making the after-market prices even higher.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
I've been thinking about getting away from the pre-order system.



View attachment 1963135





It would be simpler to make what I want, when I want and sell what I want on whatever schedule works best for us. There really is no good business reason to do pre-orders and they make our business less adaptable due to the scheduling obligations that are necessary. It made a lot of sense when we were smaller and we had all these restrictions in our manufacturing process where our inventory was limited, sales were very brisk and there was advantages for everybody to take orders and scale things up.

The problem with pre-order is, once I have your money you are reasonably entitled to schedules and updates. I don't want to be in that position anymore. It's not fair to you guys and it's not how I want to operate. I think it's time to change our model and do things like the SDFK where we simply make product and sell it on Fridays. Easy peasy.
Click to expand...

From a business perspective, and it's none of mine, so forgive me: if you don't need the cash, I'd say go for it. Lower risk for you and your family is a good thing, you obviously can generate the same buzz without pre-orders and your knives will sell. If you need the cash, there are other and safer ways to get it.
 
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