Ranger T-series +P+ 9mm ammunition

WoodenChicken said:
I have known him since we were 12 years old, he IS a special agent for the FBI. Plain and simple. Whether you or anyone else believes it, doesn't matter. That's basically what he told me about the move to .40 caliber, if you disagree that's fine.
But one thing is definite: he is a special agent for the FBI, and you ain't. So, I will take his word for these things over yours.
Over and out.:D
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ya dont know whos what, do ya?

FWIW you cant depend on anything to stop anyone, everytime, its just not possible, not with anything up to and including 50 BMG, if a 50BMG wont do it how in the world will a .40? a 12 gauge with slugs wont do it everytime, again if it wont how will a .40 do it??

i also have read a bunch of stuff by dr gary roberts and i suppose i concur with much of what he says, i certainly believe him before i believe folks on the 'net, or writers for gun mags, no offense to anyone.....
 
SIFU1A said:
ya dont know whos what, do ya?

I know what it took him to get into the FBI. Officer/lawyer in Marine Corps, several years in the DEA, lots of education and training--training that has continued through his career in the bureau. Do some people on this forum know more about guns than him? Undoubtably.
Believe me, he has never been on a knife or gun forum in his life and likely never will. He is out there doing the real thing, and again, you ain't.

Double secret over and out. :cool:
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WoodenChicken said:
He is out there doing the real thing, and again, you ain't.
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Spend some more time here, as Sifu said, you have no idea who is what even if you do like telling them that they are not _____. Me, I'm just a broke down never was but there are some members here who make Rambo and 00 look like girl scouts- only they won't tell you about it. And if they knew their friends were running on about it, they'd politely (or not) put a stop to it double quick. Heck, I bet there is at least one member here who knows your friend's boss' boss.
 
WoodenChicken said:
SIFU1A said:
ya dont know whos what, do ya?

I know what it took him to get into the FBI. Officer/lawyer in Marine Corps, several years in the DEA, lots of education and training--training that has continued through his career in the bureau. Do some people on this forum know more about guns than him? Undoubtably.
Believe me, he has never been on a knife or gun forum in his life and likely never will. He is out there doing the real thing, and again, you ain't.

Double secret over and out. :cool:
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again, you have no idea what i (or anyone else FWIW) does.

FWIW i am semi retired (i am not 65 yet thank goodness so still have to make a $ every now & again) after 20yrs in the CJ field, and am within 6 hrs of a masters in CJ,( and might teach at the college level unless i can convince my girlfriend to be my sugar momma lol.) is that doing the "real thing"? i dont know, define "real" it was doing some kinda thing i promise ya i have a scar or 2, bad back, bad hip, and sometimes a bad attitude to prove it lol. yeah, i know, i should put more effort into my writing/grammer on the 'net but i wrote enough papers and such in school and can, when i have to, this, after all, isnt being graded. was i ever in a gunfight? nope. did i carry one? sure did.

one guy i went to college with is a US deputy marshal and he knows very little about ballistics (and doesnt claim to he carries what is issued) same with a TX ranger, he, again, carries whats issued, as a matter of fact my ranger buddy has been in at least one gunfight i am aware of but he was using a 12 gauge shotgun at the time, he carries a 1911 .45 now but mostly because thats what rangers carry, 1911's, he has privately told me he really likes SIG P220's better, but that really-really is a "double secret" lol. i do know none of them (or me FWIW) thinks a .40 S&W is the end all/do all answer from the lord for self defense, nor do any of us depend on it or expect it(or anything else for that matter) to produce 100% one shot stops in every scenario, simply because the .40 S&W wont do that, nothing will up to & including .50BMG.

as far as you knowing someone who was in the marines, is a lawyer, is in the the DEA and the FBI too, well, i am overwhelmed...............

his name isnt otis, is it? one of my proff's was an ex-marine, worked for a justice dept organised cime task force and retired from the DEA, but he wasnt a lawyer, probably isnt him lol.
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Hahaha, this thread is too much. It does not take a field expert to read ballistic reports! There are plenty of cops (and military for that matter) that have no clue about firearms other than which end the bullet comes out of. Some only touch a gun to clean it or qualify once a year at the range. I had to beg and barter just for range time in the Army, a good number COs view the range as just a place to qualify. Almost every time I learn something new it's a civilian teaching me. Occupation has no bearing on ballistic knowledge. :D
 
ya are pretty much stuck with issue stuff in the military anyway, i know a few cops and there knowledge of ballistics varies from fairly good to zero lol, one of the more intelligent folks on ballistics i know as a proffesor at Tx state U, IIRC he did a doctoral thesis on ballistics for LEO's while at sam houston state U, i used to enjoy talking to him about 9MM vs whatever and such, he seemed to know WTF, but just like the military most officers are required to carry whats issued and a lotta things can go into why a dept buys this or that, price being a big consideration FWIW, only a small handfull can pick and choose and even they have criteria to follow is a list of stuff to choose from, ie the Tx rangers, they are issued ranger but can use several others, IIRC the others being golden sabre and gold dot, maybe the new federal HST's, they buy them and the state pays them back, but thats pretty rare for a LEO to have the ability to do that, mostly if ya carry unsanctioned ammo ya are gonna have problems, sometimes bad problems, but really most agencies nowadays try to get something that works and most of the newer ammo does seem to work fairly good, its not like it was in the early '80s and ya acnt draw analogies between this ammo or that based on what it did in '84, thats no longer valid info.
 
Any of the 9mm +P+ is good stuff, especially the Ranger or HydraShok. As far as pressure goes it is generally less than 9mm Nato. About everything is approved for the Nato so the +P+ should be good.

Personally I can't tell the difference in either recoil or ejection patterns from standard loads.


If I remember correctly the sole reason for the FBI changing to the 10mm and later the 40 is due to Miami shoot out. One round that struck the subject was thought to have penetrated insufficiently.

The caliber change was due to the fact that every beauracracy functions the same, find something to blame and then spend money on new hardware. Never mind tactics or training because you can't show that to the public or other people who's main calling in life is to fill a vacant desk chair.

Beauracracy once again fumbles and picks a caliber and gun that doesn't suit the purpose and are both short lived in the agency after spending much $$$.

Your tax dollar at work.
 
imho the miami fiasco had more to do with bad tactics than bad ammo, bad luck also had a bit to do with it (ie the team leader losing his glasses in the wreck) but it was what it was, 9MM silvertip doesnt work very well but really nothing in 9MM was too great at that time, folks always wanna put the blame on the tool vs the person using the tool, especially if they are dead.
 
SIFU1A said:
imho the miami fiasco had more to do with bad tactics than bad ammo, bad luck also had a bit to do with it (ie the team leader losing his glasses in the wreck) but it was what it was, 9MM silvertip doesnt work very well but really nothing in 9MM was too great at that time, folks always wanna put the blame on the tool vs the person using the tool, especially if they are dead.
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The agents were lucky the BG didnt use his carbine from the get go. Would have been a bit more one sided, than it already was.
 
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