Rank Your Steels!

#1 - the steel in the knife I happen to have on me when I need it, I usually dont know what the steel is, but it usually is hard enought to do what a knife is supposed to do
 
knarfeng said:
Nope.
I don't rank steels because what I want to do with a knife changes the alloys in which I am interested.

There's some that are tough and make good choppers.
There's some that hold an edge a very long time and make good skinners.
There's others that take a very fine edge and are good for detail working.
There's some with extreme corrosion resistance and are good around water.

Can't rank them unless you know what you want to do with them. There are no "bad" alloys. There's some that are better for some purposes than others.
Click to expand...

Now that is refreshing to see! :thumbup:
 
Wish I had experience with all the steels people are mentioning. For me, VG-10, ATS-34 and Carbon V have all been outstanding overall.

Lots of people dig 154 cm, but I can never get it as sharp as the above mentioned steels.
 
52100 has been my all time favorite. 1095, 1084 and 0-1 have also been great performers for me, as well as whatever carbon V is.

AUS 8 doesn't get great reviews, but I like it well enough for a stainless.
 
knarfeng said:
Nope.
I don't rank steels because what I want to do with a knife changes the alloys in which I am interested.

There's some that are tough and make good choppers.
There's some that hold an edge a very long time and make good skinners.
There's others that take a very fine edge and are good for detail working.
There's some with extreme corrosion resistance and are good around water.

Can't rank them unless you know what you want to do with them. There are no "bad" alloys. There's some that are better for some purposes than others.
Click to expand...

Another vote for this answer. I have used ALOT of steels and though I can compare and give a really long winded answer, it boils down to what application I am using the steel for. Even then its all perspective bias and I really dont have any #'s to back anything up. I just know I have had good experience's from certain steels in certain designs and many times the heat treat and grind the maker used had just as much to do with it as the steel itself.

I have several knives in the same steel but edge geometry, blade design, heat treat and application have so much to do with how it performs its very difficult to rank the steels fairly. Thats why knives like the spyderco Test Mules are so great for comparison steel testing as they all come in identical designs you can do the same grind for each knife and have better testing results.
 
Well, as usual it depends on what you're doing (eg. chopper vs hunting knife) ..... but here's my take on it (based on edge retention and sharpness from working with most of these steels):

Stainless:

ZDP-189
BG-42
VG-10
S30V (had some that worked great, some that chipped)
154CM, ATS-34
440C (properly heat treated)
D-2 (semi-stainless)
Sandvik 13C26 (excellent if properly heat treated, oil quenched, and takes a superb edge)
ATS-55
Sandvik 12C27
9Cr14Mov
AUS-8, 8Cr13MoV, 8Cr14MoV
440B, AUS-6
420HC
440A, AUS-4
420J2

Non-Stainless:
A-2 (w/ proper heat treat)
O-1, 1095 carbon
5160

You might want to check this out:

http://www.zknives.com/knives/articles/knifesteelfaq.shtml
 
Rating steels is very difficult. Like many said, rating criteria would depend on the desired application. But I also find that heat treat has a very significant impact on the steel's performance. For example, Spyderco does an excellent heat treat and has the best S30V that I've ever tried. I've recently got this S30V neck knife from a different company that is so poor that all my AUS8 Al Mars outperform it. By the way, all my Al Mar's AUS8 perform better than any of my 440C knives.

This is based on my small (but not insignificant) experience...
 
Favorite steel on my users are....( Not in order since it depends on the use).
S30V
INFI
D2(esp Dozier's)
BG-42

Have some others I like, such as zdp-189, s90v, M4, but like the ones listed above the best.
 
knarfeng said:
Nope.
I don't rank steels because what I want to do with a knife changes the alloys in which I am interested.

There's some that are tough and make good choppers.
There's some that hold an edge a very long time and make good skinners.
There's others that take a very fine edge and are good for detail working.
There's some with extreme corrosion resistance and are good around water.

Can't rank them unless you know what you want to do with them. There are no "bad" alloys. There's some that are better for some purposes than others.
Click to expand...

I know this. That's why I said "I thought it would be fun". I'm essentially asking you to make generalizations. I see nothing wrong with that, as it's not intended to be so serious or objective.
 
I think that maybe before we rank the steels we should rank the heat treats for them...the best steel is no good with out a really good heat treat...Just my two cents...Peace
 
The fascination with expensive steels seems to be a North American phenomenom. I saw some quite expensive knifes in Germany that were made with 440C.
Although I have some knives made out of the' top tier' steels listed here, the steel used doesn't matter that much to me. I like SD oriented knives that look good to my eye. For example, I have an old CRKT Kasper/Crawford Combat folder that is made out of 420 something or other but is a good looking, strong knife that, for it's intended purpose, gives me as much ,no in truth ,much more, confidence than either [for example] the small Sebenza or the 'large' Sebenza ,which I understand has a blade that stretchs OVER 3 1/2 inches long! Hey! if any assailant is less than impressed, you could always explain to him how expensive the steel is. That'll give the bastard pause!
 
While I really like my 154CM Benchmade, there is no way I rank it in the same tier as CPMD2 Para. I can get them both razor sharp, honed and polished and the CPMD2 outlasts the BM by weeks with more use!
 
What about sg2. Can anyone direct me to a link to find out more about it?

SG2 has only been mentioned by one person.
 
I've had relatively good success with Kershaw's SG2, both in a folder and their Shun series kitchen knives. A powered steel, my opinion of SG2 is it will take an extremely fine edge, loves to be polished, and holds a very good edge. I guess its all in the heat treat.

To me, it ranks up there with ZDP, S110V, CPM-D2 and VG-10. But as knarfeng mentioned earlier, different steels for different tasks.
 
I've had very good experiences with the SG2 blades I've used too. It takes a crisp, strong edge so making it really, really sharp isn't a problem. I don't see S90V/S110V wear resistance but it's way above the AUS8 class in my experience. To me, it fits in the class of stainless steels beginning from 154cm/VG10, going on up to S30V and 20CV. This is the class directly below the "supersteels" like S90V, S110V, and ZDP 189. To me, I can get the edges of BG42 on the SG2, maybe a bit better, with better wear resistance. In other words an excellent, high performing steel.

Back to the favorite steels. I'll have two categories. Stainless and carbon/alloy steels

Stainless:
VG10
CPM 154
BG42
S30V
SG2
20CV
S90V
S110V
ZDP 189

Carbon / alloy steels:
CPM D2
5160/1084/SK5
W1/W2/1095
O-1
52100
3V/Vascowear
Super Blue
M2
CPM M4

I've said it before. I love the tungsten steels. It's one reason I like the edges I get with Vascowear rather than the similar 3V ( based on vascowear)

I have a knife made out of an unknown high speed steel in someone's garage back in the 50''s or 60's. It was a saw blade ( not circular)

The edges it takes are phenomenal. I wish I knew what it was. Even dull the carbides can be felt cutting away at the skin. It's got to be some kind of moly/tungsten steel. not M2 or M4 either. I'd say it has a higher carbide fraction, with more tungsten.
 
Well, if forced to pick, I would have to say -

BG-42
CPM154
SG2
ZDP-189
440C
420HC
CPM-D2

The order depends on the knife and application.
 
knarfeng said:
Nope.
I don't rank steels because what I want to do with a knife changes the alloys in which I am interested.

There's some that are tough and make good choppers.
There's some that hold an edge a very long time and make good skinners.
There's others that take a very fine edge and are good for detail working.
There's some with extreme corrosion resistance and are good around water.

Can't rank them unless you know what you want to do with them. There are no "bad" alloys. There's some that are better for some purposes than others.
Click to expand...

(was searching around... resurrecting this for no good reason... back from the morgue...)

+1 :thumbup:

Indeed, there is significant wisdom & experience in this response.

  • The steel that "makes sense" for a given knife and it's application varies tremendously based on intended use, price point, etc.
  • Also, the quality of heat treat is paramount. Whether it be the high austenizing temperatures required for certain steels, to the tempering temps and cycles, to cryogenic treatment... or differential tempering possible for the simpler carbon steels... This is a huge topic all unto itself.
  • Hardness, abrasive edge holding wear resistance (and difficulty to sharpen), toughness vs brittleness, stain resistance, heat treat and grain structure, and price... all of these are parameters that should be understood in making a steel choice.
  • Knife blade grind, spine thickness, edge type / profile / angle, flat vs. hollow grind, ... all have a significant influence on performance, which again has different answers depending on intended use.
  • Stock removal vs. forgeable is another area.
  • Learning to sharpen what you own is a good skill. Diamond stones and a jig help a lot. Not overheating if you choose to use a machine (belt sander, or motor driven wheel) is a good thing to know about... you can overheat and ruin the hardness (soften) a knife tip in an instant. A change of color is a good clue.

Consider a few applications that would result in different steel choices:
  • General purpose hunter/skinner
  • Caping knife
  • Bird & Trout knife
  • Salt water fillet knife
  • Fresh water fillet knife
  • Camp knife
  • Big chopper (axe substitute)
  • Axe
  • Machete
  • Fighter
  • Hard use folder
  • General EDC folder
  • Cheap folder suitable for abuse or loss
  • Purely defense oriented fixed or folding blade


The forums are full of opinions, misinformation, hype, and general chaff. Separating wheat from chaff takes time and lots of reading. If that sounds cynical, see my autosignature, and keep reading the forums... a few years helps.

I'll avoid comments about naivete, rankings, and magic properties attributed to forged 52100 or damascus... (oops, I typed it...)

Ok... back to our regularly scheduled programming.
 
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