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Ranking of Steels in Categories based on Edge Retention cutting 5/8" rope
- Thread starter Ankerson
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- Sep 17, 2013
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Jim, that white 2 did well for a low alloy steel. Hardness is high and heat treat is probably pretty good.
Then how do you explain this huge difference between these two blade made from same steel ? Just do not tell me that the reason is this 1.5 HRC difference ?
CPM 10V - 2400 - Phil Wilson Coyote Meadow - 64.5 RC - .004" behind the edge
CPM 10V - 1100 - Spyderco/Farid K2 - 63 HRC - .020" behind the edge.
The Phil Wilson is 5X thinner behind the edge. There seems to be a correlation of more cutting ability, the thinner the edge is. That makes sense because this is a slicing exercise. This would be a detriment for a batonning contest.
Then there's the 1.5 boost in hardness.
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Then there's the 1.5 boost in hardness.
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Agree. We're talking about comparing knives of the same steel. Good point!
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Ankerson
Knife and Computer Geek
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Not publishing them....
Just collecting data for my own database.
And they won't mean anything to anyone other than those who actually have one of the testers.
And even then it would depend on what tester they are using as there is a BESS A and BESS C scales now depending if they have the electronic or the precision tester.
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Exactly what I think , but Ankerson say that's not exactly how it works.....and I wish to know how it works ? Why this big difference between two blade made from same steel ?
I really think that this is more test of the knives and geometry ...not Ranking of Steels in Categories based on Edge Retention cutting 5/8" rope
Results are pretty clear about the effects of both hardness and thinner geometry. If you have a knife reground and thinned out, the difference is amazing. But you need to use data point like knives that have been reground and retested to help you understand how to compare other steels. Once you have that figured out then you can compare steels even at different harnesses and make good educated guesses
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I figured they were tested before you started BESS testing and you likely weren't eager to redo it just for those numbers.
Isn't that kind of against one of the reasons for the BESS scale-to allow for comparisons among makers and enthusiasts across the board on a common scale?
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In that particular instance maybe but many are tested at the same geometry with different steels thus allowing for great comparisons.
Also hardness isn't everything.
Same steel, same geometry, same hardness could still give different numbers based on the HT protocol used.
Ankerson
Knife and Computer Geek
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Long before I had it.
Until it becomes more mainstream it won't matter.
Those numbers only mean anything to those who actually have the systems etc as they don't compare to anything otherwise.
Personally I use mine to help keep things honest as I am collecting data, it's another check for consistency for me.
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I understand why Jim likes using knives within the same thickness behind the edge, to keep the parameters he has set for this testing the same. But, otherwise, thickness behind the edge should have no bearing on the number of cuts if the edge angle is the same. It may require more force to make the cut with a thicker profile, but the edge shouldn't degrade any quicker as far as the number of cuts are concerned..?
But the way he's measure edge degradation is by the force. So the thinner ones have lower forces, which is really all that's important for cutting in my mind. Thats why you want sharp to being with, to lower the force.
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The way I see it (which is probably wrong) is this. When the very edge of a thin blade wears down as the test proceeds, what's left is still a relatively thin blade. It still slices efficiently.
However, when the very edge of a thick knife wears down, what's left is a more blunt edge behind it. As this process advances, it become increasingly more difficult to slice.
This is all at nearly microscopic scale, or at least caliper scale, of course.
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However, when the very edge of a thick knife wears down, what's left is a more blunt edge behind it. As this process advances, it become increasingly more difficult to slice.
This is all at nearly microscopic scale, or at least caliper scale, of course.
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