Ranking of Steels in Categories based on Edge Retention cutting 5/8" rope

The Cold Steel Hunter in XHP is just above the HSC in White Steel with generally similar thickness and hardness.
It appears that occasionally a knife is exceptionally well made and punches above its weight class.
I don't think that implies that every knife in a particular alloy with a particular geometry is going to perform equally well.
 
Natlek said:
I can bet that if HSC regrind his knive to .005 behind the edge will triple the cuts .... White Steel Laminate - 460 - HSC Custom - 63-64 HRC - .020" behind the edge
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my thoughts exactly as I had mentioned here in post #25 - http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1397530-HSC-Handforged-Utility-Hunter-review-(white-steel!)/page2

"In the back of my mind I'm thinking how would the knife have performed if I had thinned out the edge to less than .020....? :-)"

Then I thought about it and realized.... - The fact is I never grind that thick behind the edge, ever. The thickest I will grind to is .015 and usually it's more like .010 or less behind the edge.
Shawn tested and sharpened the edge 3x, I just checked with him. Jim sharpened once. So 4 consecutive sharpenings...

Even if the sharpener thins out the bevel, it's not the same as re-profiling the bevel as it was originally ground or original geometry was defined.

Jim mentioned it's hard to say and I'm not experienced enough to argue that, but intuitively I feel like I will get more cuts given the hardness and keen edge
 
HSC /// said:
Jim mentioned it's hard to say and I'm not experienced enough to argue that, but intuitively I feel like I will get more cuts given the hardness and keen edge
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Exactly, it is hard to say, too many factors involved.

I can say this though, never saw any blade triple the cuts in my testing after being thinned out..... Far from it.... And that's with the high carbide steels that have a lot of wear resistance.

Like I posted before, that's not really how it works.

One never knows what will happen until the blade is actually tested, this is something that can never be predicted.

Might do better, could do the same or worse, you never know.
 
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Harbeer/HSC for your & others(mine included) interest, please thin out the knife to 0.003 and send it back to Jim for more testing. Of course, probably under 2 conditions: 1. if Jim is willing 2. You or us (can pitch in) to compensate for Jim's time & rope.

Jim & Harbeer - your thoughts?

As for placing a bet within +-100 cuts on Harbeer's Hitachi White#2 knife with 0.004-0.005"BET. Put me down for 555.


Ankerson said:
Exactly, it is hard to say, too many factors involved.

I can say this though, never saw any blade triple the cuts in my testing after being thinned out..... Far from it.... And that's with the high carbide steels that have a lot of wear resistance.

Like I posted before, that's not really how it works.

One never knows what will happen until the blade is actually tested, this is something that can never be predicted.

Might do better, could do the same or worse, you never know.
Click to expand...
 
With respect to al that are interested, I'm going to pass. Honestly I think we are just annoying Jim at this point. :-) I'm confident in my edge and my HT. It's not the best performing steel here but laminated steel has other advantages and I'm comfortable it's a solid performer and has been independently tested and I'm grateful to Jim for his time. I'm not going to ask for more than this. . Jim has provided all of the test details for anyone else to replicate.

I didn't think too much about the thickness behind the edge but with the 4 sharpenings it is indeed different than what i originally ground.

When contributors like jim do these tests and such, the inspiration and motivations comes from themselves and their own interests to learn and contribute

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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I hope we're not annoying Jim. This is the most interesting and insightful thread IMO. It's all(Jim's hard work & time invested) very much appreciated. Good stuff!
 
Jim, forgive me if this has already been asked, but do you have any plans to test the MT21 in CPM-4V ? The only 4V tested, so far, seems to be a custom that not many of us will ever get a chance to use. Us commoners might like to see how the more accessable MT21 ranks in your testing protocol.
 
HSC /// said:
I'm confident in my edge and my HT. It's not the best performing steel here but laminated steel has other advantages and I'm comfortable it's a solid performer and has been independently tested and I'm grateful to Jim for his time.
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A very solid performer, great job on that one!
 
:)

Toothy

I may have to jettison toothyness at least in my Manix. Today he embarrassed me. I was needing to SLIT a plastic product bag, carefully so as not to destroy it for reuse if the product did not fly for the customer. I wanted to slip the tip in and cut just one layer near the hang ‘em up card board. Just enough to get the thing out but that is all.

I wound up poking the tip through both layers and could not push cut it once I backed it out for a one layer cut. Even sawing a bit the edge just repeatedly folded over the thin plastic and it all turned into a jagged hack job.

The customer was hovering and getting impatient while I farted around with my knife. The Manix was a little larger than he expected and he said something to the effect that “I didn’t realize the Bowie was part of a mechanic’s everyday tools” or something to that effect . . . like I said I was very busy doing NOTHING well or fast.

I am POSITIVE that if I had been using one of my other knives with the polished hair whittling edges I would have done what I wanted to do without a thought.

Later I took the same blade to a few rubber covered cloth items that were being cut up for disposal and I pierced the material easily and slit the heck out of them effortlessly with a slicing (sawing) kind of motion. So the edge was sharp. At lunch I check it and it would bite my finger nail and I have not really used the edge that much since sharpening because I have been carrying other knives for the last week or so.

This week end . . .
the CPM-S110V Manix man gets a polished edge.
 
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bluntcut said:
Harbeer/HSC for your & others(mine included) interest, please thin out the knife to 0.003 and send it back to Jim for more testing. Of course, probably under 2 conditions: 1. if Jim is willing 2. You or us (can pitch in) to compensate for Jim's time & rope.

Jim & Harbeer - your thoughts?

As for placing a bet within +-100 cuts on Harbeer's Hitachi White#2 knife with 0.004-0.005"BET. Put me down for 555.
Click to expand...

I wanted to add my some thoughts and observations to this.
I sent my knife about a month ago mid May to Shawn for a review and testing, then it went to Jim for his testing, then the knife went to a sheathmaker directly,
I rec'd my knife back yesterday from the sheathmaker, so I have not seen my knife in 4 weeks.

Of course I wanted to see what the edge looked like after several sharpenings and how sharp or dull the edge is after Jim's 460 cuts.

So here is the edge, a quick video of how it cuts, it no longer push cuts paper but has a sharp and solid working edge. Again Jim mentioned he doesn't stop when a knife is dull, but stops when it requires more pressure than whatever limit was set, I think 20 lbs. The edge is untouched and as I rec'd it out of the box last night.

77F6DB69-451C-4F5F-B44D-916941346742_zps6j1uar3a.jpg


30D64B73-3761-4C5F-9114-BF002E2E2378_zpsywme6mz0.jpg


[video]http://vid1273.photobucket.com/albums/y402/hsc3_90293/0EF903E1-6AD8-4EDB-A90C-6F41F82CDC3B_zps4ihnwldp.mp4[/video]

I also wanted to measure the edge and it is in fact varying from .015 to .020, base to tip., approx .018 in the middle.
Note the amount of steel removed from the base of the edge near the ricasso/guard side. I preset the calipers and locked the slide and then viewed the jaws across the edge bevel. you can see i'm not squeezing the calipers.

40E6D2D0-2551-478F-A6C3-6A7DB5FDE97D_zpsivzcpxwp.jpg


19DB6139-15C8-457C-BE44-F8DA9ADC51F4_zpsgohpotce.jpg


I had ground the knife much thinner initially as again, this is how I always grind, to a thin edge.
This confirms what I believed that several sharpenings had made the material behind the edge more thicker and the angle more obtuse.
The main bevel was not thinned out by either Shawn or Jim - hope you guys are reading this and can confirm my understanding.

so no conclusion, just my observations :-)
I really got alot out of this experience and am grateful for the learning
 
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HSC /// said:
I wanted to add my some thoughts and observations to this.
I sent my knife about a month ago mid May to Shawn for a review and testing, then it went to Jim for his testing, then the knife went to a sheathmaker directly,
I rec'd my knife back yesterday from the sheathmaker, so I have not seen my knife in 4 weeks.

Of course I wanted to see what the edge looked like after several sharpenings and how sharp or dull the edge is after Jim's 460 cuts.

So here is the edge, a quick video of how it cuts, it no longer push cuts paper but has a sharp and solid working edge. Again Jim mentioned he doesn't stop when a knife is dull, but stops when it requires more pressure than whatever limit was set, I think 20 lbs. The edge is untouched and as I rec'd it out of the box last night.

77F6DB69-451C-4F5F-B44D-916941346742_zps6j1uar3a.jpg


30D64B73-3761-4C5F-9114-BF002E2E2378_zpsywme6mz0.jpg


[video]http://vid1273.photobucket.com/albums/y402/hsc3_90293/0EF903E1-6AD8-4EDB-A90C-6F41F82CDC3B_zps4ihnwldp.mp4[/video]

I also wanted to measure the edge and it is in fact varying from .015 to .020, base to tip., approx .018 in the middle.
Note the amount of steel removed from the base of the edge near the ricasso/guard side. I preset the calipers and locked the slide and then viewed the jaws across the edge bevel. you can see i'm not squeezing the calipers.

40E6D2D0-2551-478F-A6C3-6A7DB5FDE97D_zpsivzcpxwp.jpg


19DB6139-15C8-457C-BE44-F8DA9ADC51F4_zpsgohpotce.jpg


I had ground the knife much thinner initially as again, this is how I always grind, to a thin edge.
This confirms what I believed that several sharpenings had made the material behind the edge more thicker and the angle more obtuse.
The main bevel was not thinned out be either Shawn or Jim - hope you guys are reading this and can confirm my understanding.

so no conclusion, just my observations :-)
Click to expand...


I only reprofiled it to 15 DPS and removed enough to raise a burr so I didn't remove all that much steel from the edge as I wasn't repairing anything.

It was around 20 DPS when I got it in.
 
Jim,
Early on you talked about testing the same steels at different hardnesses. I have a s125v full flat ground at 64 HRC after being tempered several times and .10 at the edge and I haven't put the bevel on it yet or the cf handle and .12 at the spine but I was wondering when I'm done with it if you would be interested in testing it to see what this steel will do at the extreme or at least close to it. I know this will take a lot of time and cutting so I didn't know if you wanted to take the time or even if you had the time. Thank you for your consideration. My email is martin238 at me dot com.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
martinsanders said:
Jim,
Early on you talked about testing the same steels at different hardnesses. I have a s125v full flat ground at 64 HRC after being tempered several times and .10 at the edge and I haven't put the bevel on it yet or the cf handle and .12 at the spine but I was wondering when I'm done with it if you would be interested in testing it to see what this steel will do at the extreme or at least close to it. I know this will take a lot of time and cutting so I didn't know if you wanted to take the time or even if you had the time. Thank you for your consideration. My email is martin238 at me dot com.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I actually have one coming that's 64 and .006" behind the edge to test. :)
 
Jim, thank you for your interest driven work, i continue to learn and apply. OEM product D2 has fallen to second place behind Benchmade m390; soured me on saving a 20 spot, or so, on a used contego m4. ill just save up for another month and keep my eyes peeled for a 810-1401.
 
Jim,
Always one up lol! I also have a Phil Wilson K390 Bow River at 64 .08 behind the bevel if your interested in that?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
56170254424c142e51884815843317ef.jpg


I showed you mine now show me yours.
In all seriousness I'd like to see a picture of it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
martinsanders said:
56170254424c142e51884815843317ef.jpg


I showed you mine now show me yours.
In all seriousness I'd like to see a picture of it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


Got it in today for testing, will shoot a picture tomorrow and post it.

Going to do a full review on it. ;)
 
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