Rant about a thread over in the training section...

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roughedges said:
tradition and history are in the maker, not the materials he uses.
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That's the key to culture, continuity, and progress. Otherwise, we'd still be making the same stone axe for a million years, like Homo erectus.

The kamis come out of an old tradition that used materials they could find in an ever-evolving pattern people could use. At any point that one specific model succeeded in doing a specific job well, it became a traditional model because kamis continued to make it. But innovation always went on around it.

Simon makes the same mistake a new martial artist can get seduced into making: that the art or the tool is the weapon, instead of the man himself.
 
Simon makes the same mistake a new martial artist can get seduced into making: that the art or the tool is the weapon, instead of the man himself.


Exactly.
I am new to the Khukri and I am totally sold on HI and its phylosophy.
I find HI Khukris to benefit my style of Martial practice.
 
Simon's post is irrelevant and merits a "HIGH" on the Bogusity Meter because it's a case of comparing applies to oranges in a self-serving way. I own an 18" WWII (one of Rusty's) and a new M43 from the 6 July specials, and they are two different handling knives. In fact, I find the ringless, curved handle of the M43 to have somewhat LESS control than ringed WWII's handle. The M43 tends to rotate in the hand if not firmly gripped (and that's my only "negative" comment -- this M43 is a NICE khuk). Thus, I do not see the advantage of an M43-style khuk in MA over a much faster khuk like a Siru or Malla, both of which I LOVE to use in weapon katas. Way more control for slashing, stabbing, and general slicing and dicing.

JMO

Noah
 
Rudyard Kipling wrote a poem about a kind of tradition, and how people always seem to see it in the past, and never recognize it at work all around them:

The King

"Farewell, Romance!" the Cave-men said;
"With bone well carved He went away,
Flint arms the ignoble arrowhead,
And jasper tips the spear to-day.
Changed are the Gods of Hunt and Dance,
And He with these. Farewell, Romance!"

"Farewell, Romance!" the Lake-folk sighed;
"We lift the weight of flatling years;
The caverns of the mountain-side
Hold him who scorns our hutted piers.
Lost hills whereby we dare not dwell,
Guard ye his rest. Romance, farewell!"

"Farewell, Romance!" the Soldier spoke;
"By sleight of sword we may not win,
But scuffle 'mid uncleanly smoke
Of arquebus and culverin.
Honour is lost, and none may tell
Who paid good blows. Romance, farewell!"

"Farewell, Romance!" the Traders cried;
"Our keels have lain with every sea;
The dull-returning wind and tide
Heave up the wharf where we would be;
The known and noted breezes swell
Our trudging sails. Romance, farewell!"

"Good-bye, Romance!" the Skipper said;
"He vanished with the coal we burn.
Our dial marks full-steam ahead,
Our speed is timed to half a turn.
Sure as the ferried barge we ply
'Twixt port and port. Romance, good-bye!"

"Romance!" the season-tickets mourn,
"He never ran to catch His train,
But passed with coach and guard and horn --
And left the local -- late again!"
Confound Romance!... And all unseen
Romance brought up the nine-fifteen.

His hand was on the lever laid,
His oil-can soothed the worrying cranks,
His whistle waked the snowbound grade,
His fog-horn cut the reeking Banks;
By dock and deep and mine and mill
The Boy-god reckless laboured still!

Robed, crowned and throned, He wove His spell,
Where heart-blood beat or hearth-smoke curled,
With unconsidered miracle,
Hedged in a backward-gazing world;
Then taught His chosen bard to say:
"Our King was with us -- yesterday!"
 
Esav posts more poems than anyone in BF. It is often a treat to see what he comes up with next.



munk
 
Berkley said:
Well. I don't, and I thought myself well-read :o . Very appropriate, Esav; thank you.
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Don't feel bad. I wouldn't know it either if Esav hadn't sent it to me after I was whining about how there were no great men and leaders around nowadays :) .
 
I noticed that Simon used the words "kukri" and "Gurkha" instead of "khukuri" and "Gorkha". You'd think that someone who swears by the ultratraditional would know better. ;) :rolleyes:

Oh yes, and "cho". That's not very LEArnt of him. :p

Bob
 
For some reason, that thread is not dyng a gentle death, but ill founded supporters of Tora keep piling the debris still deeper upon their heads.


munk
 
Sorry Munk, I can't let it go. Uncle Bill would have, and that was part of why I loved him. But I am not him and I can't help but feel that there is as much of an attack on him going on there as there is on the product. There is an implication that Uncle Bill was some kind of huckster pawning off tourist crap to unsuspecting fools and I am not going to let it go easy. If you ask me to, I will though.
 
All I can say is, "Me Too," Bobwhite. When evil and illfounded statements are made about HI I will refute them. None of this had to be. We did not attack Tora.

I can't figure out what on Earth Tora was thinking during the initial ridiculous remarks. If they'd said; "Our khuks are a faithful rendition of WWl and ll styles tailored for the martial artist. We feel anyone interested in training would do well to look at our products." Who would have objected? But they had to smear HI to boost their own. That was sloppy and stupid. Now 'supporter's' of Tora continue to grasp at straws in additional posts. It is downright embarressing. I feel sorry for Tora Kamis. They don't deserve this kind of 'defense'.


munk
 
I am willing to concede they make a more accurate historic version. I'll concede it works better for MA. I won't concede HI is tourist junk. If he wanted to post a tourist junk example, there is no shortage of those lion's head copys or the Atlanta examples. Even then you can get some use out of those. It was all way off base and the only attempts at clarification or apology had backhanded comments. I am disgusted in a way I have not been in a long time. The kamis for tora probably make a great khuk and it is all a damn shame that some people's pride are ruining it for them. If they had handled this different, I would have been interested in buying one.
 
There are individual examples of HI khuks that are both historically accurate and of enhanced use for MA. That Tora is exclusive to this does not mean HI does not offer this product. Did any one notice todays DOD, a 17" M43 with a curved handle weighing 26 oz? That's about what my Tora weighs.

Tora has brought this upon themselves.

I rather like Howard and Yvsa's staying above the fray. I don't think Bill would condemn me for countering sheer meaness by Tora supporters, though.


munk
 
Yeah, HI has models that do what theirs do, but I was willing to give it to them to appease them. They were not happy with that though. I was wondering if John Powell saw any of this. I am not expecting him to join in, but I wish I had his knowlegde and collection to do some accurate refuting with. I have tried to keep it clean and respectful overall, and not just say what I feel, but build a good argument. I don't know if Uncle Bill would tell me to lay off or not. Kudos to those who kept their peace, I am working on it.
 
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