RAT vs. Busse?

I

ipm

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Feb 26, 2009
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This may be a point to cause argument but...

If a rugged knife for camp/bush use was needed, would you recommend a Busse or a RAT Cutlery to someone who only wants one of the two and not both?

Is one manufacturer preferred, and which specific model?

What is the reason for your choice?

Both seem to be great knives.
 
you have to factor in the price difference between the two brands also...unless price vs. performance isn't a factor for you...

no question both have very good offerings...
 
I think it is hard to compare a BUSSE to a RAT, the BUSSE is almost a luxury, as the RAT is more consumer affordable, but both get very good reviews, and their steels are completely different, the proprietary INFI on BUSSE and the well proven 1095 on the RAT.

I would say price in mind that the RAT is the best value, but which makes the knives, thats hard to tell.

I personnaly find the BUSSE too expensive to be even able to afford one, as for the RATs I have 2 Hest, an Izula, a RC-4 and a RC-6, and haven't broke the bank and I find them to be very good.

If you can afford a BUSSE, than you can afford both, so you can do a face to face comparaison.
 
I don't think price is inherently an issue. The Busse provides some attributes that the Rat does not, and it provides them at an additional cost. Some of those attributes are very tangible, and some are less so.

This is a knife enthusiasts' site, frequented by people who purchase and use knives partly for the sheer joy of it. It's a fool's errand to base a comparative argument on incremental value here. Some guys on here have over a hundred grand worth of Busses, for Pete's sake.
 
From my experience with both:

Corrosion resistance: INFI, not even close.

Wear resistance in a variety of materials: Pretty much equal.

Edge stability: RAT. Neither seems to chip, but INFI dents and rolls much easier, and this gets a lot worse if the edge is thinned.

Overall edge retention (wear resistance and edge stability combined): RAT.

Resistance to breakage, impact toughness: INFI.
 
theonew said:
From my experience with both:

Corrosion resistance: INFI, not even close.

Wear resistance in a variety of materials: Pretty much equal.

Edge stability: RAT. Neither seems to chip, but INFI dents and rolls much easier, and this gets a lot worse if the edge is thinned.

Overall edge retention (wear resistance and edge stability combined): RAT.

Resistance to breakage, impact toughness: INFI.
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This is pretty much my assessment as well. However, I would add that, generally speaking, Busse gets the nod in the aesthetics and ergonomics areas. Most Busse knives are better looking than RATs (IMHO), and Busse handles are much more comfortable. You also have a much broader range of design and combination options with Busse.
 
"Horses for courses." Make your decision based upon what your primary interests are in a knife. For bushcraft & survival, I would say RAT; affordable, durable, great steel, and a great warranty. If you plan to do more chopping, and you want to find out just how tough a knife can be, get a Busse. Although I am not nearly as experienced as some other members of the forum, I have both RATs and Busse's and I just can't get enough of my Busses. Busses are incredibly tough (I have yet to dent a blade), have superior edge retention, and can be sold for retail even after you use it extensively. They are also soooo pretty to look at. Jusy my 2 cents man!

BOTTOM LINE: Get both a Busse & a RAT; a larger Busse for chopping, batoning and the like, and a RAT for the smaller chores such as cleaning small game, fire starting and such. You won't regret either purchase. Good luck man!

-Brendan
 
kta2402 said:
I
I personnaly find the BUSSE too expensive to be even able to afford one, as for the RATs I have 2 Hest, an Izula, a RC-4 and a RC-6
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Couldn't you have bought a Busse or two for the price of those five RAT knives?

Yes.

It's not a question of what is too expensive, it's what you choose to spend your money on.

Thanks,
Carlos
 
I think the biggest factor in this decision for most people IS the cost. Yes, we're all knifeknuts here, but knifeknuts of different means. I don't think anyone who's going to chime in on this discussion is going to lambast either knife. They're both awesome. Once you realize that, the question is how much are you willing and able to pay for awesomeness?

One smaller factor that hasn't been brought up is sheathing...RATs are marketed as a system - their sheaths, and the versatility of those sheaths are part of what makes RATs work. Busses - there's plenty of great sheathing options out there, but at an added cost.
 
Busse knives are limited run collector's items that cost ridiculous amounts of money in a proprietary elite steel. RAT Cutlery sells reasonably priced bush/survival knives in a rough use steel that comes shaving sharp, with a you return it, we send you a new one warranty. The choice was easy for me, I like to use my knives and I don't think I could justify beating up a 500 dollar knife. The entire RAT line is awesome, just a matter of figuring out which your specific carry and use requirements are. I have a RC5 and HEST and don't think I could be more happy with either.
 
How about going for one of the Bussekins Swamp Rat, or Scrap Yard. Scrap Yard has a Superior performance to price ratio! They have some great knives in great steel and aren't as hard to come by.
 
I don't think I'll ever feel compelled to buy a Busse unless I become independently wealthy. My R.A.T. knives do everything I need them to, and I like the designs more. That being said I'm certainly glad that other people enjoy theirs, I just don't think I'll ever find myself joining that club. :)
 
theonew said:
Edge stability: RAT. Neither seems to chip, but INFI dents and rolls much easier, and this gets a lot worse if the edge is thinned.
Click to expand...
Quite is surprising, based on numbers, 1095 at 56-58 HRC(RAT Specs) is stronger than INFI which is 58-60...
I've had a couple 1095 knives at similar hardness and never got impression that it was all that strong 56-58HRC.
 
PayetteRucker said:
Busse knives are limited run collector's items
that cost ridiculous amounts of money in a proprietary elite steel.
Click to expand...


IMO your wrong on the first part. I don't know one person that has Busse's that doesn't use at least one, many use all they have. Many do collect, which is a great past time that I have long done with many types/brands of knives, but also use many of my knives(also worked with knife for living).

And the "ridculas amount of money" isn't really correct either. For instance at this years Blade show I got a 6" bladed busse in Satin with hand shaped BP for $283 with tax. A great deal for the qaulity of knife.

I've been a huge knife and gun nut for over 30 years and top notch qaulity is what i choose to spend my money on. Some people will never understand why some middle class(on poor side of that in my case) will spend so much on knives when we drive around in a truck with 200,00 miles, put off buying cloths for self, and sacrifice in areas just so we can buy knives. But there are many that do just that for something they love and are passionate about. Yes, I'm a knife nut, and maybe to much of one, but I'm happy with it.


to the OP...the two knives you mention are at two very diff price points. So it all depends on what you want in a knife for what you pay. The RAT's are a Great knife for the price! Busse is a Great knife for the price!
I feel the Busse steel, designs, options, qaulity build, and esp the comfort of the handle over a RAT is worth the extra $ to me. But in all reallity the RAT will handle most any task I could think of.
Just depends on how YOU want to spend YOUR money.
 
not to be off topic but for point sake :

I have heard the same argument made On RC rats.... spendy knife. you could get a mora and it will do what you want. i have heard it.... i have also heard "how many knives do you really need"

Busse vs busse kin - SY and SR both normaly offer very well priced knives in a good steel.

I got a Dog father for the same price as an RC-5 .... i love them both... I have Bussekins in many styles that RC does not offer, and there offerings wouldnt fit where my bussekins excel

Its a very Apples to oranges in many cases

You can not go wrong with eather bussekin or RC

American made - Both
Warrenty - You break it , we get you a new knife = both
Steels - Both
Good people - both

You cant go wrong with eather.... you just have to research busse/kins more to figure out how they operate.

i do have to say that out of the gate i think rat has the advantage , with the sheath... but i got other knives i use till i get them pants.... and the added money i get the sheath i desire.

so go with your heart.... pick up a rat... then look around and find a good bussekin when its offered.
 
Another issue for me is how a blade feels in the hand. I love my RC-3 but for some reason the RC-4 was less comfortable.

I also prefer the res c for handles- I have some of the older Swamp Rats and a Couple Scrap Yards and they are it for me! The RC-3 is my car blade though.

Once you own it and use it a bit, you know what's right for you. Lastly Busse-kin and RAT are both great companies with great products and they are both easy to support!
 
Gator97 said:
Quite is surprising, based on numbers, 1095 at 56-58 HRC(RAT Specs) is stronger than INFI which is 58-60...
I've had a couple 1095 knives at similar hardness and never got impression that it was all that strong 56-58HRC.
Click to expand...

Well I was just giving my anecdotal impressions after having used both steels a good bit. My theory is that INFI doesn't respond as well to repeated elastic deformation as the 1095, and the edge gets progressively weaker with use. That the phenomenon I've experienced is amplified as the edge is thinned (making elastic deformation occur more readily) would seem to bear this out.
 
When I compare my Busse SAR4 with the RAT RC-4, I find the overall performance (cutting & slicing, minor chopping) pretty much equal. Busse is said to be more rust resistance but since I apply oil after every hard use on all of my non-rust-free blades, I've had never problems with corrosion on both steels. Both knives fit just OK in my hands even though the SAR4 is a bit handle heavy. Busse should last for a life time, but I know that RAT has a killer warranty too.
 
Pretty much every knife offering is different and it is extremely hard to compare an entire line of knives across companies. Busse has INFI going for it which is a unique draw and part and parcel of the price. Regarding the Busse line and bussekins, they offer knives in smaller production batches. While some hate this marketing scheme, it offers interesting advantages, like the ability to provide a wider variety of designs and design tweaks. Taken across the history of Busse/scrapyard/swamp rat there are literally hundreds of models out there in all kinds of variations. Some easy to track down and others very rare.

Rat cutlery has more traditional production lines. The knives are available in a limited number of configurations, but widely available at standardized prices at a variety of places. Which you prefer depends on you. Some folks hate the 'busse hunting' that goes into getting the blade they want. Others relish the 'thrill of the hunt' and also like the fact that their knife is limited or rare in some cases approaching the exclusivity of custom knives.

I'll only provide a comparison between one pairs of knives I have. The RC-6 and the SOD. These are two very different knives even though they spec out sort of close to one another. The SOD is very blade heavy and an amazing chopper. The SOD actually slightly outperforms my RD-9 at chopping!!. It beats the pants off the neutral balanced RC-6 at chopping. Where the RC-6 winds out is at finer chores and slicing. Its thinner steel cuts better and neutral balance allows much better control of the tip. Personally, I like both the knives, but when I use them its really for different intended purposes. The RC-6 is more of a camp knife paired with a chopper, the SOD is for when I want to forgo a chopper but pair it with a small blade. They both cost about the same amount of money (I bought my SOD when offered by the factory store), however, as others noted I had to fork out extra for the sheath. If given the opportunity to do it over, I'd probably buy both knives again.
 
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