Razor edge retention

sodak said:
Ex. 2 I have never had a knife in S30V that could hold an edge until a couple of years ago, when I got a Buck Vanguard (Cabelas Alaskan Guide special). I did some testing, and almost had to sit down, I was that shocked. This thing didn't just blow away all other S30V knives, it rivaled some of my M4 and M390 knives in cutting cardboard and rope. I couldn't believe it. Up until that time, I would NEVER have anything good to say about S30V.
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I had a similar experience with S30V but mine was with Benchmade. I never had anything good to say about S30V until I tried Benchmades S30V. I now have 2 Benchmades in S30V and both hold a fantastic razor edge. Amazes me sometimes how long they will go between touchups.
 
vwb563 said:
I had a similar experience with S30V but mine was with Benchmade. I never had anything good to say about S30V until I tried Benchmades S30V. I now have 2 Benchmades in S30V and both hold a fantastic razor edge. Amazes me sometimes how long they will go between touchups.
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For me, Benchmade has actually had the second worst S30V, only ZT holding a slightly worse razor edge, with Spyderco being at the top and Buck being closely behind. Even the worst S30V is still pretty good, though. The real game changer for me was starting to use diamonds to strop instead of emery or chromium oxide. Before diamond strops I had terrible edge stability, the worst example being 2 cuts through double wall corrugated cardboard (granted they were like 5' cuts) and the edge went from hair whittling to hair scraping. No wire edge or burr to explain that kind of performance, the edge was just stropped extensively to a proper mirror polish from very hazy with visible grind lines (I was not as skilled of a sharpener then, hadn't learned about more passes with decreasing pressure to maximize each grit).
 
Mo2 said:
Have you read this?

You and others have clammed these steels don't get a wire edge but I beg to differ. In any case here's something that could be helpful on that topic.
http://www.bessex.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=372
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Honestly it's possible. I don't claim to be a skilled sharpener, I just know I'm somewhat okay at it and I can produce a pretty sharp edge. What's odd is if I am getting a wire edge it should be coming off when I strop. I strop 3.5 and 2.5 micron diamond paste on pine, and the apex always inevitably gets ever so slightly rounded (a slight angle increase is what the article recommends for removing a wire edge) so that should be taking the wire edge off. I have noticed that when I've gotten super steels to perform at their peak it was taking extra care, and always finishing the finest two grits with feather weight edge trailing strokes, that could be what I need to knock that wire edge off.
 
D2 does have larger carbides, but ... I have found that if I use diamond substrate (specifically Lansky Diamond deluxe or DMT for freehand) I can get a nice polished keen edge on my D2 blades (bestech lion and paladin most recently). I am not a metallurgist by any stretch of the imagination, but my impression is you have to use a sharpening material that is hard enough to reshape the carbides and a touch that is light enough to not tear the carbides out of the edge. Has produced hair popping edges for me :)

When sharpening D2 I use half the pressure and twice the passes as compared to a finer carbide metal like m390.
 
Tommy-Chi said:
Looking for more comments on 80CrV2, D2 and XHP.
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While I haven't used 80CrV2, I have used XHP a fair amount and I've used a crap ton on D2. I love D2 because it's really easy to sharpen and when heat treated right performs just below super steels. With traditional stones, it takes a fine toothy edge, and with hard modern stones like SiC or diamond it will take a polished edge pretty well. It holds a polished edge quite well too, surprising me with how much cardboard I had cut while still having a shaving edge. The only real downside is that a lot of Chinese companies claim to use D2 which is actually 8Cr or 9Cr, which perform much worse. Rule of thumb is that if the knife is under $30, it's almost definitely not real D2, or the heat treat is substandard.

XHP is really similar to D2 in performance, just holding an edge a little bit longer and being significantly more corrosion resistant. XHP seems to do slightly better with a toothy edge, but I've gotten good performance with a polished edge. XHP is harder to sharpen than D2 though.
 
dkb45 said:
While I haven't used 80CrV2, I have used XHP a fair amount and I've used a crap ton on D2. I love D2 because it's really easy to sharpen and when heat treated right performs just below super steels. With traditional stones, it takes a fine toothy edge, and with hard modern stones like SiC or diamond it will take a polished edge pretty well. It holds a polished edge quite well too, surprising me with how much cardboard I had cut while still having a shaving edge. The only real downside is that a lot of Chinese companies claim to use D2 which is actually 8Cr or 9Cr, which perform much worse. Rule of thumb is that if the knife is under $30, it's almost definitely not real D2, or the heat treat is substandard.

XHP is really similar to D2 in performance, just holding an edge a little bit longer and being significantly more corrosion resistant. XHP seems to do slightly better with a toothy edge, but I've gotten good performance with a polished edge. XHP is harder to sharpen than D2 though.
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Thank you for the comments!

Over the next six months I am going to try and buy or "place an order" for a few Dozier Knives in D2. The reason why I was wondering what folks thought abt 80CrV2 is because I have several knives in that steel from Winkler Knives and I am going to start to carry them.

Sometime around Christmas I'm going to try and buy a Wicked Edge Field & Sport Pro Portable Knife Sharpening Kit WE230. I've used stones before, but not on knives that I've purchased lately out of fear I would trash the knives with the stones. It's not that important because they are going to be users but I thought that I would take better care of them than blades purchased years ago.
 
Well I have a new update. I decided to give my Maxamet Native 5 a mirror polished edge to see how it performs, and it's very similar to K390. The edge with the polish is just insanely aggressive, as aggressive as S110V with a 600 grit edge but still able to shave and push cut with ease. It's a truly impressive edge. K390 is the same way, just a hair less aggressive and a hair easier to sharpen.

After a bit of use, the push cutting went moderately fast, not a surprise, but the hyper aggressive edge is staying. K390 keeps a razor edge longer, but Maxamet keeps an absurdly aggressive edge even when it sharts dulling.

I've also gotten to test another knife in K390 but with a much fatter grind than my Urban, and that's my new Lionsteel TRE, and even with the noticeable difference in grind I can say that K390 is a phenomenal steel and should be used a lot more often. The most dulling I've gotten with that steel is just on the edge of slicing paper, and that was after relentless cutting of dirty cardboard. Sadly, K390 is rarely used in knives.
 
Wowbagger said:
The Little Monster !
That's what I am here to talk about. Even RANT . . . in a good way.
You've all heard me go on about it. A year and no sharpening with daily kitchen use.
Shave sharp and hair whittling AS LONG AS I USE THE GOOD PLASTIC CUTTING BOARD.
Well . . . here we are at one year and six months. I have been thinking about sharpening it. Should need it by now right ?
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Well that was over four months ago.
The comment is mine from this thread last year (post # 18 ).
I just sharpened it this morning . . . before coffee . . . for me that's not particularly smart right . . . but I wanted to use the knife to cut up my breakfast apple.

The sharpening was a "big project" :
  • Sharpie on the edge
  • Chucked up a Shapton Glass 4,000 into the Edge Pro Apex
  • Took some passes.

Hair whittling.
I had one light chip or ding and was thinking I would probably have to go backward to the Shapton Glass 1,000 to get it out but after all was said and done here it disappeared. :thumbsup:
I then went like this :D

Just to take it past over the top and onto Alpha Centauri I chucked up the Suehiro G8 8000 for Edge Pro that I just got from Gritomatic. I've been having a lot of fun with this stone. It cuts very well and is easy to clean the pores with a natural nagura. Oh and it makes stuff sharp. (little under statement there).

The G8 helped do the final deburing and put a mirror edge on; not that I needed that but it is fun against the back ground of the heavy patina on the White Paper steel.

Oh . . . and the apple didn't stand a chance; it went to pieces as soon as it saw the glint off the edge:thumbsup:

I don't want to get mired in it all but I wanted to say that I realize this is perhaps not the Ultimate edge for kitchen knives . . . perhaps not the Ultimate edge for most knives.
That . . . I suppose . . . would be a toothy edge that has been stropped and or micro beveled with a fine stone.
I will say that I put that kind of edge on The Chef's little paring knife a few days ago when I sharpened it for her. The knife is actually mine that I carried in a cardboard sheath back in the eighties when I was, shall we say, more mobile. Up until now I have always put fairly polished edges on it starting with wet or dry paper back in the day and the last four years or so using the Edge Pro.
If I had been going toothy the whole time the knife MIGHT be too worn out to use. Maybe not but that's my story.

The Chef said : I hope you haven't sharpened it like a razor I don't really need it as sharp as you make your knives; I am more likely to cut myself if you did :mad: :mad: :mad:

. . . what could I say . . . being a champion of all that is good and right in the world I could not tell a lie . . . I said : Well actually I was hearing you say that in my mind as I sharpened it this time and so I sharpened it quick, dirty and toothy just as you asked for
but
the guys in the chat room tell me that they are more likely to get cut by that kind of edge than my hair whittlers.
She did the deer in the head lights look.

A guy can't win :( :( :(

I do know My Little Monster is sharpened the way I like it and that it is going to perform well enough to make me grin every time I use it even though it isn't sharpened right or as good as could be.

See you in a year or two :D :thumbsup:
:cool:

PS : I went back and reviewed Murray Carter's three finger technique and I had forgotten about and was asking about "the slide" part of the method for testing edge sharpness.
He DOES INDEED SLIDE. I had forgotten that. I don't use the method and will get into why in a moment but that is why I forgot that he slid and so I'm sorry, sorry I questioned that part of it.
I just forgot.

On this edge I just put on The Little Monster I tried pressing with three fingers : Nothing . . . I felt nothing, there was no bite or thorniness to the edge.
Meaning I would not have been able to judge by this method the difference between the edge being : sharp enough, sharp, very sharp, satisfyingly sharp and the level of sharpness that it actually is (whittling with a tendency to tree top).

So I tried the slide thing : I didn't really feel any sensation. Mr Carter says your brain will tell you when to stop. Sensation-less slicing ? Add most of the above sentence here ______.

So the three finger and the three finger with slide is not really an option for me.
My finger tips say they are glad of that.
Back to carving like tests on the face of my finger nail and whittling hair while it is still in my arm.
THE END​
 
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