Re-Heating Your CRK

[TTTis]

SMI...thanks for the pics! How did you get the lugs out for HT? Do it yourself or did Farner do it for you? Also, how does one get in contact with this HT guy?

No problem. Took the stud out myself, just use a pin punch and hammer. Tape the blade to a small piece of wood with a hole drilled in it for the stud to fall. Or just use a knife to create a little divot. If you are looking to use the stud again you can put some tape over it as protection from the punch. I can't remember the exact size of the punch. Use one that is just barely smaller than the hole in the blade. If you use one too small it will put a small crater in the stud (if that matters to you).

It's almost as silly as complaining about McDonald's coffee being hot...they even tell you it's hot right on the cup.

Really?? The same huh. Does CRK list on his site, "Warning steel may dent inwards when cutting cardboard!"

Change it, sure.
I modified my Benchmade Skirmish to suit me better, but I did not consider it a design flaw.
I just went ahead and made it better for me.

What do you consider a flaw? Most of the time when people modify knives they had a complaint about that particular area they modified. I take it then that you modified your knife because it was 100% satisfactory?

I just went ahead and made it better for me.

Which is precisely what this thread is about. Most people aren't really complaining, rather we are sharing our experiences and the changes we made. If that seems to bug you so much, by all means hasta luego.

But I didn't complain about it.

No, but you feel the need to tell others you don't complain. Which is just as bad in my eyes, don't act all high and mighty

 

[Rotte]

This is the first I've become aware that there was a concern about the S35. I haven't seen an issue with the S30. In fact it has been a pretty good steel in my CRK's. I recently ordered an Insingo in S35 and am now wondering how it will perform.

It seems to me the CRK tests it's products fairly well--I have some faith, I hope it's not misplaced. On balance, I prefer a softer steel that is easier to touch up than a brittle steel that may chip out, so maybe I'll like the S3 as is.

Interesting thread.

 

[wolf5391]

This is the first I've become aware that there was a concern about the S35. I haven't seen an issue with the S30. In fact it has been a pretty good steel in my CRK's. I recently ordered an Insingo in S35 and am now wondering how it will perform.

It seems to me the CRK tests it's products fairly well--I have some faith, I hope it's not misplaced. On balance, I prefer a softer steel that is easier to touch up than a brittle steel that may chip out, so maybe I'll like the S3 as is.

Interesting thread.

Honestly, some people love it some people hate it, you have to use it for yourself to figure that out.

 

[stabman]

No, but you feel the need to tell others you don't complain. Which is just as bad in my eyes, don't act all high and mighty

I'll act however I like.

 

[stabman]

I take it then that you modified your knife because it was 100% satisfactory?

To everyone else, yes.
I wanted an unsharpened ricasso area, to choke up on.
Hence, I put one there.
It wasn't a "flaw".
It was actually a feature many people appreciate, with the cutting edge coming right up to the handle...people whine about choils and unshapened "wasted" bits of blade all the time.

 

[dflores]

Love everything about my sebbie but the HT :/

 

[stabman]

Love everything about my sebbie but the HT :/

Well, it seems that there's places to rectify that.
I guess for those disatisfied with the heat treat, perhaps this thread will let them know how to rectify it.

 

[dflores]

Ya, i was thinking about sending it out for a re heat treat but i love the stonewash on my insingo too much

 

[stabman]

I think there's places that do stone-washing too.
It seems there no shortage of service providers happy to take your cash.

 

[kennywoo]

I have personally stopped (for the time being) purchasing CRK knives due to the s35vn. In my opinion the edge dulls very fast, and if frustrating to get back to satisfactory sharpness. I am working on my stropping/ homing and sharpening to develop a method that works for me. However the perceived 'softness' of the steel has stopped me from purchasing an umnumzaan.

In my use, I feel that my s35vn sebenzas become dull after a days use. I do not find the same result I'm several other knives, many costing a fraction of the price.

Just my two cents.

 

[dflores]

I strop my sebbie a lot and i reprofiled to 34 degrees inclusive for microbevels to keep it sharp

 

[lambertiana]

I had my S30V small regular Sebenza heat treated by Paul Bos because it wouldn't hold an edge worth a darn. When it came back it had a very slight golden cast (polished blade). I was able to remove most of it with metal-glo, but it is still not the bright polish that it was originally. Maybe one of these days I'll invest more time polishing it.

 

[Huntsman Knife Co. LLC.]

I had been wanting to try a Sebbie since I joined this forum but never bought one because I use my EDC's a good amount and like high end steel (M4, ELMAX, S90V, M390) with a spot on heat treat that I know can do work and keep cutting. The switch to S35VN and the reports I heard about rolling/ edge deformation put me off even further. I got a Zann in S30V and carried it some. It was comfortable and I didn't do much cutting but the edge seemed fine. The big problem for me opening the blade. I've owned more high end Ti framelocks than I can remember and I'd never had one that was so hard to open. I just opened it two handed most of the time but that got old so I sold it.

I finally was able to purchase a Damascus sebbie and while its a drop dead gorgeous knife I am really disappointed overall. The previous owner who is a great guy and really helpful told me that this sebbie had good action/ deployment. If this sebbie has good action Id hate to see one that has poor action. I struggle to open it with one hand and am worried about slicing myself when my thumb slips off the stud. Also leaving the lock bar and clip unfinished on such a beautiful knife is like leaving the bumper unpainted on a Porsche. These things combined with the HT issues have really turned me of CRK products.

Also I understand that frame locks need to be broken in but Ive owned probably 20 Ti frame locks that were brand new and while they did develop better action over time they all opened very well out of the box. Case in point the Kershaw Tilt which opens like an absolute dream out of the box. Maybe I'm being naive but I expect a $500+ knife that is renown as being the single best frame knife out there to open like the Kershaw Tilt does.

Either way I see the lure of CRK knives and appreciate the beauty and comfort of the Sebbie. Its a timeless knife that is a pleasure to look at and hold. But with that said If I were in an emergency and had to quickly open my knife and cut something a Sebenza would be pretty low on my list. The sebenza is a great knife that will get the job done but at $400 Mr. Reeve could make a few very small changes that would make the Sebenza a much better performer for no increase in cost.

Heat treating the steel a point harder is the perfect place to start. The fact that users are having to have their blades re HT so they can perfom EDC functions is a sign that the HT protocol needs to be tweaked.

 

[US-STEEL]

I had been wanting to try a Sebbie since I joined this forum but never bought one because I use my EDC's a good amount and like high end steel (M4, ELMAX, S90V, M390) with a spot on heat treat that I know can do work and keep cutting. The switch to S35VN and the reports I heard about rolling/ edge deformation put me off even further. I got a Zann in S30V and carried it some. It was comfortable and I didn't do much cutting but the edge seemed fine. The big problem for me opening the blade. I've owned more high end Ti framelocks than I can remember and I'd never had one that was so hard to open. I just opened it two handed most of the time but that got old so I sold it.

I finally was able to purchase a Damascus sebbie and while its a drop dead gorgeous knife I am really disappointed overall. The previous owner who is a great guy and really helpful told me that this sebbie had good action/ deployment. If this sebbie has good action Id hate to see one that has poor action. I struggle to open it with one hand and am worried about slicing myself when my thumb slips off the stud. Also leaving the lock bar and clip unfinished on such a beautiful knife is like leaving the bumper unpainted on a Porsche. These things combined with the HT issues have really turned me of CRK products.

Also I understand that frame locks need to be broken in but Ive owned probably 20 Ti frame locks that were brand new and while they did develop better action over time they all opened very well out of the box. Case in point the Kershaw Tilt which opens like an absolute dream out of the box. Maybe I'm being naive but I expect a $500+ knife that is renown as being the single best frame knife out there to open like the Kershaw Tilt does.

Either way I see the lure of CRK knives and appreciate the beauty and comfort of the Sebbie. Its a timeless knife that is a pleasure to look at and hold. But with that said If I were in an emergency and had to quickly open my knife and cut something a Sebenza would be pretty low on my list. The sebenza is a great knife that will get the job done but at $400 Mr. Reeve could make a few very small changes that would make the Sebenza a much better performer for no increase in cost.

Heat treating the steel a point harder is the perfect place to start. The fact that users are having to have their blades re HT so they can perfom EDC functions is a sign that the HT protocol needs to be tweaked.

So, is this thread about HT or just a general dump on CRK; whereby we write an entire page of what we don't like about CRK and close with a couple of short sentences relating to the threads actual topic?

I found this thread interesting, but have no desire to follow it any further if it's just going to degenerate into a CRK bash. Regarding the opening of a Zaan; it's a different technique than most other folders, but quite easy to master with some practice. I'd say if only 1 in 10,000 folks can't easily, rapidly and safely open and close a particular knife, then it's not really a knife design related issue.

No, I'm not a CRK fan boy, but I do love his products along with many other manufacturers. So for the record, I'm just a blade enthusiast that appreciates good craftsmanship, regardless of the price. My apologies to the OP and other members following this thread, as now I'm guilty of diverting it further off topic myself.

 

[Haze]

The bit in bold is interesting. I have had many folding knives from pure and utter pish to customs that are with out a doubt some of the best made items I have ever seen. I have found that CRKs are amoung the smoothest and nicest to operate knives I have owned. I have noticed one thing I do think of as an issue on the damascus knives though, I'm not sure if this is what you mean. That problem being that the part of the blade that the detent travels over has been etched and not masked along with the area the washers sit on, this gives the knive a ratcheted feel when being opened. I find this rather disappointing regardles of any possible reasons for it but it really does nothing to kill the over all action and usability of the knife. I am also wondering what you mean by "unfinished" when describing the lock bar and clip ? If you still have the knife pics of any issues are always welcomed. :thumbup:

I had been wanting to try a Sebbie since I joined this forum but never bought one because I use my EDC's a good amount and like high end steel (M4, ELMAX, S90V, M390) with a spot on heat treat that I know can do work and keep cutting. The switch to S35VN and the reports I heard about rolling/ edge deformation put me off even further. I got a Zann in S30V and carried it some. It was comfortable and I didn't do much cutting but the edge seemed fine. The big problem for me opening the blade. I've owned more high end Ti framelocks than I can remember and I'd never had one that was so hard to open. I just opened it two handed most of the time but that got old so I sold it.

I finally was able to purchase a Damascus sebbie and while its a drop dead gorgeous knife I am really disappointed overall. The previous owner who is a great guy and really helpful told me that this sebbie had good action/ deployment. If this sebbie has good action Id hate to see one that has poor action. I struggle to open it with one hand and am worried about slicing myself when my thumb slips off the stud. Also leaving the lock bar and clip unfinished on such a beautiful knife is like leaving the bumper unpainted on a Porsche. These things combined with the HT issues have really turned me of CRK products.

Also I understand that frame locks need to be broken in but Ive owned probably 20 Ti frame locks that were brand new and while they did develop better action over time they all opened very well out of the box. Case in point the Kershaw Tilt which opens like an absolute dream out of the box. Maybe I'm being naive but I expect a $500+ knife that is renown as being the single best frame knife out there to open like the Kershaw Tilt does.

Either way I see the lure of CRK knives and appreciate the beauty and comfort of the Sebbie. Its a timeless knife that is a pleasure to look at and hold. But with that said If I were in an emergency and had to quickly open my knife and cut something a Sebenza would be pretty low on my list. The sebenza is a great knife that will get the job done but at $400 Mr. Reeve could make a few very small changes that would make the Sebenza a much better performer for no increase in cost.

Heat treating the steel a point harder is the perfect place to start. The fact that users are having to have their blades re HT so they can perfom EDC functions is a sign that the HT protocol needs to be tweaked.

 

[Huntsman Knife Co. LLC.]

Im borrowing this pic off google here but this is what I mean about the lock bar and clip having the different finish.

I still think the Sebenza I have looks excellent regardless of the lock bar and clip finish but I think it would look twice as good with a consistent finish.

As for the opening action, maybe Ive just been spoiled by KVT but Ive watched video's on how to open a sebenza, practiced etc... and still can't get it.

I am off topic though. This thread is about heat treat and users opting to send their blades in for a re HT. S35VN is still somewhat new but its been around long enough for other makers to work out the kinks in HT. CRK has the best quality control of any company and every company regardless of how tight the tolerances are will have lemons but the issue of soft steel in CRK's seems to be much more relevant than with any other high end manufacturer.

When was the last time someone started a thread about having their Spyderco Military's re HT because they had issues with rolling and then multiple members replying saying that they had to have their blades re HT?

I am dissopointed because I love the design and feel of the Sebenza but it is not as good of a knife as it could be.

 

[Haze]

Ah I see, that is what I would call a two tone finish rather than "unfinished" and that actually takes more work as the 600 satin is done by hand. Some people don't like the two tone finish some do, I personally don't. As for the heat treat that is and has been part of CRKs design philosophy from the start. I can get a workable edge on my Sebenza or Umnumzaan using anything from the edge of a car window to a rock and lots of things inbetween. That was the point, a knife that is easy to maintain regardless of where one finds them selves. Best of luck to any one trying that with S90V at +60 Rc. It seems to me many have been spoilt with these super steels that are the norm now and have also grown used to being able to sit at home and sharpen them comfortably with good diamond and ceramic stones....

 

[marthinus]

Ah I see, that is what I would call a two tone finish rather than "unfinished" and that actually takes more work as the 600 satin is done by hand. Some people don't like the two tone finish some do, I personally don't. As for the heat treat that is and has been part of CRKs design philosophy from the start. I can get a workable edge on my Sebenza or Umnumzaan using anything from the edge of a car window to a rock and lots of things inbetween. That was the point, a knife that is easy to maintain regardless of where one finds them selves. Best of luck to any one trying that with S90V at +60 Rc. It seems to me many have been spoilt with these super steels that are the norm now and have also grown used to being able to sit at home and sharpen them comfortably with good diamond and ceramic stones....

Many of the same design philosophy is found in Emerson knives. That is why he sticks to 154CM. Just worth a mention I believe.

 

[Huntsman Knife Co. LLC.]

I think the whole "easier to sharpen" thing is a bit of a myth.

Yes, with a softer steel it is easier to put an edge on a knife. However it is also much, much easier for the knife to get dull to the point that it needs to be sharpened.

One thing I've discovered in my time on this forum is that people Vastly over sharpen their knives.

Here's a secret, high end carbide heavy steels almost never need to be sharpened unless they become dull to the point they stop cutting or suffer edge damage. With a steel like M390 or ELMAX all the way ip to stuff like 10V you can simply give the knife a good stropping every once in a while and as long as you avoid edge damage the knife will cut for a very, very, very long time.

I only do a full sharpening on my EDC once every 3 or 4 months. By stropping it on some compound or maybe hitting it in a stropping motion on an ultra fine stone you can maintain the edge for a ridiculously long time.

Now we have the results of running a carbide heavy steel soft so it is "easier to sharpen". Ultimately it is easier to remove steel from the knife and get a very sharp edge but you are only having to do that because the knife is getting dull through micro or in some cases visible rolling from the steel not having enough strength. In the end all you end up with is a knife with decreased cutting ability and decreased edge stability that you have to do full sharpenings on all the time. This not only wastes your time but decreases the lifespan of the knife as you remove huge amounts of steel with each sharpening as opposed to almost none with consistent stropping.

As for this being CR's theory- That does not make sense either. Like 6 people in the history of the Sebenza have sharpened them on rocks. If you can afford a $425 knife you can afford a few pieces of sand paper. And as for the theory of not being able to put an edge on S90V at 60+ RC... Ive resharpened M390 at high hardness with 2 coffee mugs and belt and had no problems doing it. It takes alot of skill to freehand sharpen your knife on a rock or whatever and very few people have that kind of skill.

If ease of edge is really CR's theory he shouldn't be using S35VN at the hardness he is running it. It does not make sense on any practical level.

 

[stabman]

Here's a secret, high end carbide heavy steels almost never need to be sharpened unless they become dull to the point they stop cutting or suffer edge damage.

That hasn't been my experience at at.
M390, ELMAX, S30V, S35VN, I have to sharpen them all.
And it isn't like I'm the world's most "hard-core usage" guy either.
It just seems that when you use your knife to cut stuff, it ends up needing to be sharpened.