[Re titled] Designing 2 custom Bowie's to be built

[ExtraBaconPlease]

So if you need or want to make any changes to the existing mods, post here and say it before you start doing them. I will check in BEFORE I start you current mods. If you post saying that you're making the mods, I'll wait till you post them.

Making a small revision to the 12" Bowie's handle and quite a few changes to the 7" Bowie.

 

[ExtraBaconPlease]

Final revision for the 12" Bowie completed. Will post the 7" Bowie revisions when we finish off this 12" one. No need to muddy the waters.

Updated specs to follow.

 

[ExtraBaconPlease]

Updates in bold.

Specs:

18" OAL

Blade:
12" blade
2.2" blade width (1" flat from the spine to the saber grind. 1.2" from the saber grind to the cutting edge)
1 7/8" blade width at the guard
5.5" clip point
6.5" flat spine
4.5" belly (with less abrupt belly, more slight curvature)
6" cutting edge
1.5" choil (1" flat, 0.5" on a 40 degree angle towards the cutting edge)

Handle:
Handle is now slightly asymmetrical - has a slight curve. (flatter [not flat] on the top, more curved on the bottom)
6" handle (including guard - guard is 7/8" thick)
1 3/8" handle width at the guard
1 3/4" handle width at the widest point of the coffin
1 1/4" handle width at the thinnest point of the coffin
the three lines that make the pommel/coffin are all 3/4 " long. Both of them are at 45 degree angles from the vertical one
1/8" or 1/4" chamfers along all edges of the handle - not sure yet.

Guard:
4.5" width (1" on the top of the spine/handle, 1.5" on the bottom)
7/8" thick

Pretty sure that's it.

 

[BladeScout]

Very likely the final design for the 12" blade Bowie;

I'm extremely happy with it.

I drew this to scale with one mistake, I drew the guard 1/4" too far forward into the blade. So the blade needs another 1/4" added to it in the flat spine/cutting edge to be to scale.
Also, while it is to scale, I don't believe it is actually straight from tip to butt. It's close but not perfect so some straightening up might be in need.

Specs:

18" OAL

Blade:
12" blade
2.2" blade width (1" flat from the spine to the saber grind. 1.2" from the saber grind to the cutting edge)
1 7/8" blade width at the guard
5.5" clip point
6.5" flat spine
4.5" belly (with less abrupt belly, more slight curvature)
6" cutting edge
1.5" choil (1" flat, 0.5" on a 40 degree angle towards the cutting edge)

Handle:
6" handle (including guard - guard is 1/4 thick)
1 7/8" handle width at the guard
1 3/4" handle width at the widest point of the coffin
1 1/4" handle width at the thinnest point of the coffin
the three lines that make the pommel/coffin are all 3/4 " long. Both of them are at 45 degree angles from the vertical one
1/8" or 1/4" chamfers along all edges of the handle - not sure yet.

Guard:
4.5" wide (1" on the top of the spine/handle, 1.5" on the bottom)
1/4" thick

How's that for specs....that drained my life. At least it's done now

Why the S curve to the guard?

 

[Coke]

Let me know what you think Bacon, this is set to 100% scale.

I brought as many of your specs into line as possible with my graphics package, it's well balanced and on ball with what you wanted. I'll do the template file once I know you're happy with it.

 

[Coke]

S is for Suave.

 

[XtianAus]

Let me know what you think Bacon, this is set to 100% scale.

I brought as many of your specs into line as possible with my graphics package, it's well balanced and on ball with what you wanted. I'll do the template file once I know you're happy with it.

My opinion isnt what matters at the end of the day, but personally I think that looks freakin awesome!! Easily the best of the designs so far.

 

[Coke]

Glad you like it Xtain. It's blade profile is similar to an Attack 14.

Regarding the steel choice, I'm not a massive noob when it comes to steel. I understand the a fair bit but have been spoiled with INFI, thus not really paying attention to other stuff for a couple years.
N690 was/is on my shortlist of steels for the large blade, I was not counting it out, I just had to do more research on it. Thanks to your little write up, you've got me quite convinced it is "the one".
I want really nice corrosion resistance and just an unbreakable blade. Sounds like it will do the job. The only prying this blade would do be if it got stuck in someones rib cage like on the cold steel natchez bowie video LOL - love them vids
As long as it can handle that kinda stuff I'll be very happy. Obviously I don't want the edge to chip, crack, roll ...

INFI as we all know is not a choice, with what you want the knife for the steel has to have rust resistance unless you don't mind pulling out and oiling or greasing it up every couple of months for as long as you have it. The carbons will fit all your user needs except for the long term unattended storage, and that's a big one. N690 is made in massive quantities hence the low price, it doesn't reflect the steel's worth, only its price. Z-FiNit Nitrogen Stainless is almost the price of CPM-S35VN but I have read things about it and been told by people in the know that it is a very ordinary stainless, a small step above 440C. I'm told the reason for the price is its small production runs, so one can't judge a steel simply by its price.

I can currently get a single piece of N690 that's .284" thick, 23.5" x 1.5" wide for $43 USD. The same sized piece of S35VN would set you back around 200USD. So on a knife like yours, N690 will also help to keep the cost down. Once you try it, you'll see it's a fine steel, put it to the test, it won't let you down. I've pried massive amounts of shell fish stuck on rocks and piers the size of basketballs with my N690 Fox Scout, 5.3 odd mm thick. That stuff is like cutting into soft rock and it's as abrasive as anything you'll ever come across. I used a recently purchased knife made from Sandvik 12c27, a nice steel for cutting and slicing meats, fine bones etc. In one session of cutting and prying the mussel clusters off pylons to use as bait and heaps for crushing up as berley, it was gone. lol I had to lightly regrind and sharpen the first half of the blade it was that bad. The edge was obliterated on it, and I lost about 1/4" of the tip WITHOUT knowing it or realizing it at the time. We're talking 5mm thick 12c27, NEW. The N690 can do that all day without even losing its main cutting/slicing ability, it lasts longer in that kind of use than even S35VN. I mean abuse more than use. I like it, it's really impressed me as far as a stainless is concerned.

For hard use, there are better steels, but for treasure troving a knife, it's pretty good, and you at least have a blade with a decent steel that's not costly in raw form.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oBgzuYbPcY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24t5VZvM3es


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfNML3VUZBI

 

[ExtraBaconPlease]

Why the S curve to the guard?

Because I like it.

My opinion isnt what matters at the end of the day, but personally I think that looks freakin awesome!! Easily the best of the designs so far.

I think it's the best one too. Your opinion does matter actually, everyone's does. That's why I made this in public, to get peoples opinions. If you want to share something or have any criticism - spit it out cause I want to hear it. Cheers!

INFI as we all know is not a choice, with what you want the knife for the steel has to have rust resistance unless you don't mind pulling out and oiling or greasing it up every couple of months for as long as you have it. The carbons will fit all your user needs except for the long term unattended storage, and that's a big one. N690 is made in massive quantities hence the low price, it doesn't reflect the steel's worth, only its price. Z-FiNit Nitrogen Stainless is almost the price of CPM-S35VN but I have read things about it and been told by people in the know that it is a very ordinary stainless, a small step above 440C. I'm told the reason for the price is its small production runs, so one can't judge a steel simply by its price.

I can currently get a single piece of N690 that's .284" thick, 23.5" x 1.5" wide for $43 USD. The same sized piece of S35VN would set you back around 200USD. So on a knife like yours, N690 will also help to keep the cost down. Once you try it, you'll see it's a fine steel, put it to the test, it won't let you down. I've pried massive amounts of shell fish stuck on rocks and piers the size of basketballs with my N690 Fox Scout, 5.3 odd mm thick. That stuff is like cutting into soft rock and it's as abrasive as anything you'll ever come across. I used a recently purchased knife made from Sandvik 12c27, a nice steel for cutting and slicing meats, fine bones etc. In one session of cutting and prying the mussel clusters off pylons to use as bait and heaps for crushing up as berley, it was gone. lol I had to lightly regrind and sharpen the first half of the blade it was that bad. The edge was obliterated on it, and I lost about 1/4" of the tip WITHOUT knowing it or realizing it at the time. We're talking 5mm thick 12c27, NEW. The N690 can do that all day without even losing its main cutting/slicing ability, it lasts longer in that kind of use than even S35VN. I mean abuse more than use. I like it, it's really impressed me as far as a stainless is concerned.

For hard use, there are better steels, but for treasure troving a knife, it's pretty good, and you at least have a blade with a decent steel that's not costly in raw form.

Thanks for the info! Definitely sounds like N690 is the way to go for this one. I'm on board. Just curious, if I wanted to go for a "better" stainless, tough steel, what are my options? I really can't think of many unless we are talking like 3V with Delta heat treat. That stuff is tough as nails and more than stainless for my needs.

Let me know what you think Bacon, this is set to 100% scale.

I brought as many of your specs into line as possible with my graphics package, it's well balanced and on ball with what you wanted. I'll do the template file once I know you're happy with it.

Looks amazing. I'm very, very happy with it! May I ask how you know it's "well balanced". Thanks for all the help Coke, you're a legend.

 

[ExtraBaconPlease]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfNML3VUZBI

Dat music got me doing fist pumps and jumping jacks.....lmfao

 

[Coke]

Bacon,

I'm speaking figuratively. I'm referring to balancing your specs best I can given they all have to be done manually. I don't have AutoCAD, just a graphics program which was primarily designed for editing photos and the like. So any change on a drawing means one has to alter all other affected parts of the drawing manually, one at a time. With CAD, any single change you make the program adjusts ALL other aspects and dimensions of the drawing all by itself, as in, automatically.

3V is tougher than N690 and most all other steels except S7, they call it semi stainless, so I'd be careful with long term storage of it, but from a users perspective, it's superior in most every other way. I'm having my Super Attack made from it because I intend to use it when fishing and hunting. It will only be laid down during winter months... and then covered in silica wax till spring.

I can't upload the picture of the template file on the filesever I use, they seem to be down at the moment, will try later, but here's the template file:


Template file here:

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=89747779577380513001

 

[Coke]

The other thing to keep in mind with the super tough steels is that they increase the cost of a custom build due to all the extra work the maker has to do to shape and grind them, waterjet cutting them has its merit. 110V, 3V, S7 and the like chew up belts and bandsaw blades almost as if the steel were made of diamond. If you want a steel that's on par with 3V in many aspects but is fully stainless, try 110V, but get your pocket ready for the purchase of it in raw bar form.

Also, I've never seen 110V selling thicker than about 0.20" or I'd have got some myself. But for smaller EDC carriers like your 7" Bowie it would be a really good one even in 0.20" thickness, that's thick enough if the steel's special, even in ELMAX, CPM20CV / M390 or S90V it's thick enough. In the thickness you're after for your large bowie, N690 and 3V will be easier to find.

 

[Coke]

Dat music got me doing fist pumps and jumping jacks.....lmfao

Then you should pop into the music thread in here... the boys and I post some of the "pumpiest" "grooviest" beats in town therein... the best in the business. Aussie stuff too of course.

 

[Coke]

 

[Karoi]

Why the S curve to the guard?

S is for Suave.

Because I like it.

Lmao!

The design is coming along nicely!
What material do you think you'll use for the handles EB?

 

[ExtraBaconPlease]

The other thing to keep in mind with the super tough steels is that they increase the cost of a custom build due to all the extra work the maker has to do to shape and grind them, waterjet cutting them has its merit. 110V, 3V, S7 and the like chew up belts and bandsaw blades almost as if the steel were made of diamond. If you want a steel that's on par with 3V in many aspects but is fully stainless, try 110V, but get your pocket ready for the purchase of it in raw bar form.

Also, I've never seen 110V selling thicker than about 0.20" or I'd have got some myself. But for smaller EDC carriers like your 7" Bowie it would be a really good one even in 0.20" thickness, that's thick enough if the steel's special, even in ELMAX, CPM20CV / M390 or S90V it's thick enough. In the thickness you're after for your large bowie, N690 and 3V will be easier to find.

Thanks for the extra info mate. So you are confident that N690 is strong enough for "combat use" including chopping through bone and such or getting lodged in between them and prying? I want to test the knife on some lamb, chopping it up after it's been cooked on the spit.

It's going to be N690 most likely but 3V still isn't ruled out.

The template is perfect by the way, thank you! :thumbup:

Then you should pop into the music thread in here... the boys and I post some of the "pumpiest" "grooviest" beats in town therein... the best in the business. Aussie stuff too of course.

If there is more of that stuff count me in...bwahahahahahahah!!

The design is coming along nicely!
What material do you think you'll use for the handles EB?

Cheers man, I'm very happy with the design
I'll likely go with Black G10 for the handle material. I love G10. It will also hold up very well to use and..time! Classic black and silver look is timeless too.

 

[Coke]

Bacon,

For that kind use in 1/4" or more stock, N690 won't let you down if its been properly treated. They do MUCH more than that with it in 5mm thickness with the knives they issue to active members of the Italian, Austrian and other armies. For the heavy stuff in 0.3" odd thickness it'll be much better than 5mm, and you can rest easy it won't rust up on you in the years to come when it's resting.

 

[ExtraBaconPlease]

Bacon,

For that kind use in 1/4" or more stock, N690 won't let you down if its been properly treated. They do MUCH more than that with it in 5mm thickness with the knives they issue to active members of the Italian, Austrian and other armies. For the heavy stuff in 0.3" odd thickness it'll be much better than 5mm, and you can rest easy it won't rust up on you in the years to come when it's resting.

Well then I guess it's settled. N690 it is. Now I just need to find a suitable maker!

P.S Although the blade will be in storage for basically forever until it is used...IF it gets used (after initial testing), I will still pull it out to wow myself probably every few days So I will take care of it but it's definitely good to know I can treat it like shit and it won't rust. Especially if it did get tossed in a long term SHTF situation or what have you. But that's crazy talk anyway...carry on!

 

[ExtraBaconPlease]

Regarding makers, on my tiny and not completed (nor researched) list, I currently have 3 names down;

Adam Vigil
Darrin Sanders
Ed Martin

I know there are many more. If anyone has any suitable suggestions please share them.

Thanks!

 

[Coke]

Vigil will do it for you, and he'll do a very nice job, just keep in mind he does the knifemaking part time, so his turnaround reflects it, have a talk with him though.

I spoke with Ed Martin on the weekend about doing me a Brend Model 2 Replica, and he advised that he doesn't do replicas of any knife makers who are still living. But that doesn't effect you in this case.

Most of the boys in here would do you an excellent job on a knife like that Bacon, Darrin's work speaks for itself, as does Phillip Patton's and numerous others in here. They're all capable of making that Bowie of yours a real treasure trove, and at a good price, I've not come across a maker in here who you'd call expensive or a rip off merchant. All you have to do is talk with them and come to an agreement, they're all well priced and they're all capable.